L'ESPRIT JEAN CLAUDE DUFOUR - Simply Terrific!

[KaraBrooks]

Out of curiosity, I checked the menus of the top 3 - 4 restaurants in Jacksonville, FL (where I live -- sometimes known as "South Georgia"). As a point of comparison, a filet mignon at dinner seems to be priced about $36 - $42. Now, I have to say that "JAX" is a very pleasant place to live, and the restaurants can be very good, but neither measures up to what I find on SBH. My point is that the premium prices attached to "high end" restaurants on St. Barths don't seem to be extraordinary, considering costs associated with importing food to the island and that it's a luxury holiday destination. With specific respect to L'Espirit, Tamarin, Santa Fe, Maya's, etc., I think that most of us see the price differential -- between "home" and such places on SBH -- as something akin to a "cover charge" for being in a setting we enjoy. When the comparison moves from JAX to other US venues such as Manhattan, San Francisco, LA, Washington, DC, etc., I find that there's no differential.

I agree with Dennis 100%. Ate at Annisa in NYC recently. Service is included (so apples to apples) and broiled mackerel was $46, rabbit was $48 etc. NOT EVEN CLOSE TO THE MEAL WE HAD AT L'ESPRIT. Not even close.

I actually find the high end of SBH to be comparable to Boston, NYC etc price wise (Christmas and New Years excluded). It is actually the lower end places that seem more expensive to me by comparison to places at home.

Totally off topic but if you find yourselves in NYC (and want to be wowed Reed!) head to Gabriel Kreuther. Stunning experience!

 

[JEK]

To Dennis and Kara's points - Fiola Mare is at the (current) top of the list in DC and is our favorite these days, although we don't get there often enough.

 

[Islander]

I compare prices of St Barths with prices of St Tropez. French Caribbean vs French Riviera. Tourist area vs Tourist area. France vs France. Euros vs Euros. Service included vs Service included. It can't be more "Apples to Apples".

Both places of which I'm a resident and have regular habits.

One place has to import food, the other one has V.A.T. to add on top of the bill. The cost of import is approximately 20%, so is the V.A.T. So it evens out, more or less.

Sure, there are expensive places in St Tropez (and I am just waiting for the Google champions here to find some menus online and make a point), but generally prices are lower than in St Barths.

To me it seems that because the American crowd of NYC (or elsewhere) is so used to pay high prices, some smart restaurant owners on the island inflate their menu rates more than they should. The clients think this is normal, and now it becomes the "norm" (as I already said here above).

All IMHO of course. This is a free country, so pa'ni pwoblem ! (tired of French, switching to Créole now...). I'm glad that business is running well on the island and when customers are happy.

 

[MIke R]

Out of curiosity, I checked the menus of the top 3 - 4 restaurants in Jacksonville, FL (where I live -- sometimes known as "South Georgia"). As a point of comparison, a filet mignon at dinner seems to be priced about $36 - $42. Now, I have to say that "JAX" is a very pleasant place to live, and the restaurants can be very good, but neither measures up to what I find on SBH. My point is that the premium prices attached to "high end" restaurants on St. Barths don't seem to be extraordinary, considering costs associated with importing food to the island and that it's a luxury holiday destination. With specific respect to L'Espirit, Tamarin, Santa Fe, Maya's, etc., I think that most of us see the price differential -- between "home" and such places on SBH -- as something akin to a "cover charge" for being in a setting we enjoy. When the comparison moves from JAX to other US venues such as Manhattan, San Francisco, LA, Washington, DC, etc., I find that there's no differential.

You re not using the whole formula or seeing the whole picture .....now compare portion sizes against the respective prices....and the sides portions ......and then after that compare true, fresh farm to table items to shipped frozen solid and prepared.....

compare a crappy frozen 3 or 4 scallops per dish in SBH dressed up with a sauce at 35 euro, to a big beautiful plate of fresh day boat broiled scallops at 25 USD in New England ...and on and on

using Kara s old menu as an example her prices were probably comparable to higher end SBH restos but the freshness factor and portion size factors were absolutely not comparable ....and it was noted by many at our SBHFORUM dinners there ......and more importantly it tasted that way as well....

gotta look at the whole picture

 

[MIke R]

I broiled mackerel was $46,!

thats just sinful.....ON A GOOD day mackerel does not even get a buck a pound....it's cat food....or tuna bait ....LOL

 

[cec1]

. . . gotta look at the whole picture

Understood and agree with your points, Mike. In my personal eating habits, however, I think that the items I choose on St. Barths -- in the restaurants where I generally eat -- are pretty comparable in terms of quality to what I get elsewhere. (One thing for sure . . . you and Ellen have taught me to go with local fresh fish!)

 

[MIke R]

Understood and agree with your points, Mike. In my personal eating habits, however, I think that the items I choose on St. Barths -- in the restaurants where I generally eat -- are pretty comparable in terms of quality to what I get elsewhere. (One thing for sure . . . you and Ellen have taught me to go with local fresh fish!)

Great on the fish!.....here at home Wendi and I generally do not eat at places who do not locally source poultry, meats and fish and veggies/produce on at least some level so I can't say I have had the same experience as you in comparing, as to us there is an appreciable difference in taste compared to brought in frozen and prepared...but as always ...YMMV and do what makes you happy yada yada

 

[davesmom]

Throwing my 2 centimes in, my 2 favorite restos in SBH are L'Esprit de Jean-Claude and Santa Fe, which was the advice I gave to my friends and travel agent who are all visiting the island this month (without me:culpability. I believe a did a trip report from last year. I have had nothing but divine experiences at these 2 restaurants over the years that I have visited, although L'Esprit has not been open that long. I really think there is something for everyone in SBH, so I thank everyone to keep us updated. Living in San Diego area, I can assure you that the food prices in a "nice" restaurant here are equal to SBH prices and the food is generally awful here (but not in L.A. or Orange County..can't figure that out). So enjoy every minute, whether it be a cheeseburger in paradise or an evening with J-C...you are so lucky to be there!!! P.S. I love your menu photos and as in the tradition of France, I appreciate the menu postings outside the restaurants! At least you know what you are walking into before you dine. P.P.S. We used to love the lunches at Le Carré downtown..very reasonable for delicious food. I know they changed hands but has anyone been there for lunch this year?

 

[KaraBrooks]

using Kara s old menu as an example her prices were probably comparable to higher end SBH restos but the freshness factor and portion size factors were absolutely not comparable ....and it was noted by many at our SBHFORUM dinners there ......and more importantly it tasted that way as well....

Yeah but we were going broke

Truthfully - the best "values" in restaurants are often at the high end (esp. for lunch) when a chef and his/her investors are creating a brand. A place like Jean-Georges (flagship in NYC) operates at a loss and the slack is made up by him with offshoots and hotel restaurants (including Sand Bar). The customer (dining at the flagship) is the winner. Not a lot of branding going on in SBH - just a lot of hard work in a difficult business in a challenging location. That said, there is some real talent and hospitality on the island.

If you are looking for great food (imo) shop and cook at home in the US (or where ever you are from) where you have access to great ingredients. It you are looking for an "experience" which is larger than the sum of the parts, I generally find St. Barths delivers quite nicely.

PS - Erik (love the Creole - need a creole forum ) - are you suggesting we should fly to St. Tropez for better value meals? I am kidding of course but I can't really come up with places putting out higher quality food than JC at a significant discount on SBH.

 

[davesmom]

Yeah but we were going broke

Truthfully - the best "values" in restaurants are often at the high end (esp. for lunch) when a chef and his/her investors are creating a brand. A place like Jean-Georges (flagship in NYC) operates at a loss and the slack is made up by him with offshoots and hotel restaurants (including Sand Bar).

I have been told that sales of alcohol can offset the losses as well.

 

[KaraBrooks]

I have been told that sales of alcohol can offset the losses as well.

All sales (including alcohol) go into the profit analysis and flagships in major cities still operate at a loss or very close to a loss. I have no idea how BYOB places survive but gotta love them!

 

[cec1]

Look at this "thread!" Seventy replies & over 2,000 views. And civil, interesting, thoughtful exchanges. Refreshing!

 

[JEK]

Look at this "thread!" Seventy replies & over 2,000 views. And civil, interesting, thoughtful exchanges. Refreshing!

No surprise to me, look at the original poster and her guiding hand along the way

 

[cassidain]

"civility is overrated"

I don't often quote Christopher Hitchens, but it is an interesting quote . . .

 

[Islander]

PS - Erik (love the Creole - need a creole forum ) - are you suggesting we should fly to St. Tropez for better value meals? I am kidding of course but I can't really come up with places putting out higher quality food than JC at a significant discount on SBH.

Amen, Kara, you're the specialist. :eagerness: I will start saving for my next meal at JC then, I might have missed the whole point last time. In the meantime, you're invited in St Tropez! I'll show you around.....and we'll compare together...How does that sound?

 

[MIke R]

Yeah but we were going broke

.

And yet you'd think I would learn from you or my daughter....but nope....we re diving right back into food after a 15 year hiatus ...with a cafe named Le Tasse ( am I allowed to post that word in an English thread?).....it will hit me that it s really happening when I am at the retail food show in Boston next weekend plopping way too much money down for an espresso machine ....... oy

 

[kent1994]

To Dennis and Kara's points - Fiola Mare is at the (current) top of the list in DC and is our favorite these days, although we don't get there often enough.

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John can you comment on portion size? That seems to be a big issue with some posters.

 

[MIke R]

Yeah shame on me that I have a problem getting three little slices of zucchini with my 3 ounce portion of meat/fish and need to go get something to eat two hours later....LOL

if you want we can start pulling meal report pictures and break it all down..I would welcome that ....

we re an active family ....we aren't sitting around all day doing an impression of a sloth....we re out walking..swimming boating .....etc....we need nourishment and calories ..not a meal fit for a bird ....LOL

I especially love the 12 inch plates with the 9 inch rims they re using Lately

Meat and Potatoes however seem to be a notable exception

 

[JEK]

if you want we can start pulling meal report pictures and break it all down..I would welcome that ....

Let's ask our unimpeachable source for all things food. Kara, you ate at a number of the high-end spots -- can active people thrive on the calories they provide?

 

[MIke R]

Kara s opinion is just that....as is mine and yours ....

when I have to eat something two hours later....because portions were minuscule...that's what is real..that's not opinion....

I could share the many many PM s I have gotten through the years in here remarking on how small many ( but not all ) of the meals look in the meal reports, but I was taught by my parents never to share private conversations when they are indeed..private...so unfortunately ethics dictate that I can't play that slam dunk card