Sella's and Tip Trauma

Happycamper

SBH Insider
Sorry this is so long. I'm using it to formulate my thoughts before replying to Sella's request for feedback.

Our meal at Sella's was great. Good food, good service. Surprising and inventive bold flavors. But the whole thing almost blew up at the end because of a last minute and forceful demand for a tip.


Tipping on St Barth seems to be a real cross-cultural confusion so I don't blame the restaurants and French servers who get it wrong, but really they do need to work on getting it right for their American customers.


The rules of politeness for tips in the US:
1) NEVER ask for a tip. Allow the customer to imagine he gives it freely without coercion.
-A server may draw smiley faces, kittens and hearts around the tip line but only in exuberant penmanship.
-Ice Cream scoopers are allowed to have a bucket labeled "College Fund" or similar tongue-in-cheek tip jar. (One busy take-out spot had a "Emotional Support Jar.")
2) Always act like the customer has tipped generously, even if they haven't.
-A sever may follow a welching diner out onto the sidewalk yelling insults, but ONLY if they never want to see that customer again, which is fair, because they don't. Conversely, not tipping at least 10% in the US is basically a dine and dash. If service is truly horrible then talk to the manager--don't just sneak out.
3) Tips must go only to staff and never to owners or management.
-Exceptions are made for shift 'managers' at chain restaurants because they are really glorified servers and have no cut of the restaurants profits.


In that light, here was my experience at Sella's last week (loved the food, I'll say again.) After a very nice meal with lovely service by a lovely crew, we asked for the bill. And waited and waited and waited. Finally, the bill arrives in a box. I had my credit card ready in my hand to signal we'd need the machine, and we waited and waited and waited until finally a more senior man arrives, who we had never seen before, and seeing nothing on the tip line he says "what about the tip?" "I thought we were in France," I said. "Yes, but didn't the servers do a good job?" "Yes. They were great. But I will follow the French custom tonight," I said. "No tip?" he said. "No tip," I said. Massive eye roll like I was the worst person he had ever met in his life, and he ran the card.


Obviously to an American, there were multiple violation in the interaction, but they may not have been so obvious to the Israeli cashier on a French island working with an American tourist. And, in fairness, there is no reason why the St Barth restaurants need to adapt to US customs instead of vice-versa, other than the restaurants may like to have patrons.


First, does Sella's ask for (demand) tips from French customers? I'm thinking no, and so I'm on edge, feeling a bit like a scam victim right from the get go.
Second, even if a tip is expected, asking for it violates the social compact and taints the experience.
Third, this gentleman was clearly from the owner/management side of the house, the last person who should be involved in tips. In fact, not that I have any experience, it felt like he was Pimp collecting the evenings payments and didn't trust the Girls to touch the money. I understand that that is a French thing to have the money person swoop in and be different than the server, so that is on me, but it still has impact since the tip is between me and the server. I want the server to call out to me "Thank you!" as I am leaving if I have tipped generously, not to mention if the server doesn't know how much the night's tips are I have little confidence that they will ever get their share of them. Finally, it didn't help that the only snafu of the evening was that preparing the bill and running the credit card (both of which were the interloping cashier's jobs) was very, very slow (no, he was not busy with other bills.)
Fourth, don't eye-roll me if you ever want to see me or any of my friends again. (Happily though, I can forgive and forget because I believe this really is a massive cultural miscommunication. Plus, the food was really good.)


Amusingly, Sella's reached out to me (or their computers did anyway) to ask for feedback on my dining experience. After a few more days to settle my thoughts, I plan to write to them (and the tourist association?) something similar to the above and offer the suggestion that they price their meals and run their business models so that they are truly happy without tips and can therefore act pleasantly surprised when and if they get them. And, if they do want to continue to 'ask' for tips, at least adopt a fig leaf of politeness by having the server say something along the lines of "service is of course included, but if you do want to tip extra, I'm embarrassed to say it needs to be added before running the card." In other words use the fact that the machines are different than US machines as the excuse to bring up the whole un-discuss-able topic in the first place.
 
Gearing up for my annual return to SBH I've been catching up w/ the St. Barth Weekly, the Journal, etc. The Weekly just reported extensively on this long-standing issue and it seems the thing to do is report your concern to the Gendarmerie, w/ documentation if possible, and to Pascale Minarro-Bandin, president of the Tourism Committee so they have substance with which to confront the restaurants. It's nice that you credit cultural misunderstanding as possible here. But I've had to learn to just say "no" on the tipping issue, to leave real cash into the hands of the wait person if I wish to do something extra and to simply (and sadly) not go to some (formerly loved) places.
 
After following this issue for awhile, and experiencing bad behavior in the past, this last trip (last week) my husband and I made a point of getting plenty of Euros to use for tipping (in the French manner, "pourboire" (hope I got that right) and so we never had to worry about "the machine". It worked well. To further comment prices in the restaurants were astonishing...50 euros pasta at one of our favorite restaurants. The rate of exchange might as well be as high as we have seen it in the past, at 1.40, etc...instead of the relative parity that it is at now. We will be ever more careful in choosing where we dine during the next trip...more Le Bouchons, Les Bananiers, Santa Fe and Le Repaire (fantastic food) and less of the more expensive and showy restaurants. Frankly we had our best meals at the four I just mentioned. And no one ran after us complaining of the tip we left in cash. ;)
 
Thanks for the response JoR. I don't think this is a police issue for me personally. I can handle a little eye roll and not feel particularly violated. I suppose it is a technical violation to have a tip line on the check without writing "service included" prominently, but the Gendarmes don't need me to check up on that.

I think I will pass on the experience to the Tourism committee. It may give them ammunition to help get all the restaurants onboard. My understanding is that 5-10% is quite common in France. It is the pushing Americans for 20%+ that needs to be curtailed. The rest is just etiquette conflicts between two cultures divided by a different language.
 
Krand1, I think I will adopt your cash tips strategy. It circumvents the most devilish part of the dance.

Also, we are big fans of Le Bouchons and love doing a little AMC grab-bag of whatever strikes our fancy on the deck for dinner. Our whole trips are exercises in High-Low whiplash. All good fun.
 
We each have to stay informed and make our own decisions and take the info on this site to guide us. The line TO EACH HIS OWN is valid. There is a place for everyone. Do what makes you happy and don’t forget to use your learned street smarts and travel smarts to insure you have a great time.

Ahh, St Barth’s
 
Sorry this is so long. I'm using it to formulate my thoughts before replying to Sella's request for feedback.

Our meal at Sella's was great. Good food, good service. Surprising and inventive bold flavors. But the whole thing almost blew up at the end because of a last minute and forceful demand for a tip.


Tipping on St Barth seems to be a real cross-cultural confusion so I don't blame the restaurants and French servers who get it wrong, but really they do need to work on getting it right for their American customers.


The rules of politeness for tips in the US:
1) NEVER ask for a tip. Allow the customer to imagine he gives it freely without coercion.
-A server may draw smiley faces, kittens and hearts around the tip line but only in exuberant penmanship.
-Ice Cream scoopers are allowed to have a bucket labeled "College Fund" or similar tongue-in-cheek tip jar. (One busy take-out spot had a "Emotional Support Jar.")
2) Always act like the customer has tipped generously, even if they haven't.
-A sever may follow a welching diner out onto the sidewalk yelling insults, but ONLY if they never want to see that customer again, which is fair, because they don't. Conversely, not tipping at least 10% in the US is basically a dine and dash. If service is truly horrible then talk to the manager--don't just sneak out.
3) Tips must go only to staff and never to owners or management.
-Exceptions are made for shift 'managers' at chain restaurants because they are really glorified servers and have no cut of the restaurants profits.


In that light, here was my experience at Sella's last week (loved the food, I'll say again.) After a very nice meal with lovely service by a lovely crew, we asked for the bill. And waited and waited and waited. Finally, the bill arrives in a box. I had my credit card ready in my hand to signal we'd need the machine, and we waited and waited and waited until finally a more senior man arrives, who we had never seen before, and seeing nothing on the tip line he says "what about the tip?" "I thought we were in France," I said. "Yes, but didn't the servers do a good job?" "Yes. They were great. But I will follow the French custom tonight," I said. "No tip?" he said. "No tip," I said. Massive eye roll like I was the worst person he had ever met in his life, and he ran the card.


Obviously to an American, there were multiple violation in the interaction, but they may not have been so obvious to the Israeli cashier on a French island working with an American tourist. And, in fairness, there is no reason why the St Barth restaurants need to adapt to US customs instead of vice-versa, other than the restaurants may like to have patrons.


First, does Sella's ask for (demand) tips from French customers? I'm thinking no, and so I'm on edge, feeling a bit like a scam victim right from the get go.
Second, even if a tip is expected, asking for it violates the social compact and taints the experience.
Third, this gentleman was clearly from the owner/management side of the house, the last person who should be involved in tips. In fact, not that I have any experience, it felt like he was Pimp collecting the evenings payments and didn't trust the Girls to touch the money. I understand that that is a French thing to have the money person swoop in and be different than the server, so that is on me, but it still has impact since the tip is between me and the server. I want the server to call out to me "Thank you!" as I am leaving if I have tipped generously, not to mention if the server doesn't know how much the night's tips are I have little confidence that they will ever get their share of them. Finally, it didn't help that the only snafu of the evening was that preparing the bill and running the credit card (both of which were the interloping cashier's jobs) was very, very slow (no, he was not busy with other bills.)
Fourth, don't eye-roll me if you ever want to see me or any of my friends again. (Happily though, I can forgive and forget because I believe this really is a massive cultural miscommunication. Plus, the food was really good.)


Amusingly, Sella's reached out to me (or their computers did anyway) to ask for feedback on my dining experience. After a few more days to settle my thoughts, I plan to write to them (and the tourist association?) something similar to the above and offer the suggestion that they price their meals and run their business models so that they are truly happy without tips and can therefore act pleasantly surprised when and if they get them. And, if they do want to continue to 'ask' for tips, at least adopt a fig leaf of politeness by having the server say something along the lines of "service is of course included, but if you do want to tip extra, I'm embarrassed to say it needs to be added before running the card." In other words use the fact that the machines are different than US machines as the excuse to bring up the whole un-discuss-able topic in the first place.




Hello there!

Thanks for this post. I am not trying in anyway to be difficult with you but am simply trying to understand the situation a little better..............Do you generally not tip anywhere in a French country or was it particularly at this place, even while having a great dinning experience but waiting on getting the check and the credit card machine? Trying to understand if the wait was the problem or this specific dinning experience had you thinking to simply go with the French flow and not leave anything (most of our French friends would never do this btw and don't when they visit the US. If it helps to be more upfront I will say I own a food service business in the US and happen to know a number of the resto owners over being here for an extended period of time so I hear a lot of stories from waitstaff and owners. I am also curious to know if the person running the credit card had already looked in the box where the tip is normally left and didn't see any $$$ there so that is why they tip surfed by asking about the lack of tip. Where is Andy Hall when we need him to chime in on such things?;)
 
With a soon to be day & into nite on SBH & reservations at Fish Corner for lunch, with dinner at Eddy's...but maybe stay on our Windstar instead ? Our last villa rental of many years of doing villas was in May 2019 for 2-3 weeks, then no approach from anyone about the tip. Once years ago I had dinner with friends in a French restaurant in Bucks Co. PA where the friend who was paying the bill for the 3 of us was practically accosted by the waiter/server...think 1980's...running after him in the parking lot. Reading the posts made me think of that experience..no more $'s changed hands !
One of the few things I learned from my father was that TIPS meant To ? Insure Prompt Service. It certainly is offensive & off putting. Local fish market on our May River here in Bluffton, SC, occasionally I will add to the tip jar if buying more than 1 little piece of flounder or a lb of shrimp. I do encourage readers & visitors to get in touch with Pascale !
 
Hi Reed,

Your not being difficult--good questions. I trimmed the tale to keep to keep long from getting longer.

In France I generally tip in the 10% range. Often more if we have felt well attended to. My understanding is that in France tipping has been decreasing over time and only about half the people tip anything at all these days, but I'm guessing that the percentage of people who tip at higher end restaurants is much higher.

On this occasion, of all things, the pen wouldn't write on the waxy slip of paper. I tried backing it with all kinds of hard and soft material, but nothing would work. So, I had intended to slip some cash into the box, but when the money guy came over with the machine, things escalated very quickly to the point where we left without paying any tip at all. As mentioned, I didn't feel our particular server was going to get much of it anyway.

It is funny because tone has a lot to do with how people respond. Use a threatening tone with me and my response is to do the opposite of whatever is being asked.
 
Interesting conversation... When my friends from Paris visit SBH, they always tip 10% in restaurants. They said that SBH is far more North America to them than it is France.
 
Just to clarify.... The restaurants know and the servers know they should not be asking for an extra tip..... they know Americans will give it to them..... they will never ask a French citizen for an extra tip.....
 
Just to clarify.... The restaurants know and the servers know they should not be asking for an extra tip..... they know Americans will give it to them..... they will never ask a French citizen for an extra tip.....
Interesting etymology of se faire duper (contraction of dé-hupper) then its evolution to être pris pour un pigeon.
Un aspect stupide
Loin d’être capillotracté, ce changement de sens est en effet dû à une origine, celle du mot « dupe ». Un animal tout droit descendu d’un sacré oiseau, la « huppe ». Un volatile qui doit son nom à sa huppe, c’est-à-dire sa crête. Ou du moins, comme l’indique Le Trésor de la langue française, « à son aspect stupide ». Quel rapport nous direz-vous encore avec le pigeon ? Eh bien ! il faut maintenant se diriger vers le verbe « duper ».

« Dé-hupper » (contracté en duper), note l’auteur Georges Planelles, c’était enlever la huppe de l’animal, et par là, le plumer. » Celui qui se faisait « duper », se faisait donc « plumer ». C’est-à-dire « avoir », mais aussi, par extension, « voler » et « dépouiller ».
Comme le pigeon était bien plus présent dans les rues que la huppe, les habitants ont naturellement préféré le mot « pigeon » au terme « huppe » pour qualifier une « dupe », puis, par vases communicants, un « sot ». Le dupé devant être quelque peu imbécile pour se laisser becqueter...
À noter qu’il existe d’autres noms d’oiseau pour qualifier notre transformation en « idiot ». Rappelons le terme « dindon », dans l’expression « être le dindon de la farce » mais également le mot « boloss ».
 
We have been spending the summer ( 2 months) in norther Spain Gijon for the past 15 years or so . My mother in law is from Spain, when we go to lunch or for drinks with our Spanish friends and relatives they get so mad at us Americans for leaving too much tip. They leave a few euros for lunch and the small coins at a bar. We’ve also been going to St Barths for the same time period and recently we saw asking for a tip more often when we get the bill.
 
The whole tipping situation here has really gotten out of hand. I don't mind tipping, as an American the habit is hard to break. But, now there is this feeling of being taken advantage of at some places these days. Mostly places that have out-of-control pricing to begin with. The arrogance of demanding a tip on a French island with French customs is ridiculous. I saw a story in The Journal a few weeks ago where someplace demanded a 30% tip from a customer, saying this is how it is done on St. Barths. This is NOT how it is done on St. Barths. I don't like feeling like a chump. I am glad to see that the Tourist Board and other government officials are trying to nip this problem in the bud before it gets worse.
 
The whole tipping situation here has really gotten out of hand. I don't mind tipping, as an American the habit is hard to break. But, now there is this feeling of being taken advantage of at some places these days. Mostly places that have out-of-control pricing to begin with. The arrogance of demanding a tip on a French island with French customs is ridiculous. I saw a story in The Journal a few weeks ago where someplace demanded a 30% tip from a customer, saying this is how it is done on St. Barths. This is NOT how it is done on St. Barths. I don't like feeling like a chump. I am glad to see that the Tourist Board and other government officials are trying to nip this problem in the bud before it gets worse.

:up:
 
The whole tipping situation here has really gotten out of hand. I don't mind tipping, as an American the habit is hard to break. But, now there is this feeling of being taken advantage of at some places these days. Mostly places that have out-of-control pricing to begin with. The arrogance of demanding a tip on a French island with French customs is ridiculous. I saw a story in The Journal a few weeks ago where someplace demanded a 30% tip from a customer, saying this is how it is done on St. Barths. This is NOT how it is done on St. Barths. I don't like feeling like a chump. I am glad to see that the Tourist Board and other government officials are trying to nip this problem in the bud before it gets worse.
Totally agree! A friend visited the island for the first time in late January. I gave her specifics on this--told her service is included in pricing and to tip 5-10% if warranted and in cash only. She was there for 5 nights and said the one place they were specifically told service was not included was Tamarin. She also said it was the only place they saw a tip line on the bill. They felt awkward and taken advantage of. A big part of the problem seems to be cultural--in France the difference between "service" and "tip" whereas in the US they are used interchangeably. As Pascale said above--the restaurants and servers know they should not be asking for tips; clearly they know the difference and are taking advantage. I wrote a lengthy email to the head of tourism back in June after our unfortunate (and aggressive) experience at Petite Plage. One way the situation might change is via a combination of visitor reporting and information. The villa agencies and hotels should clarify island customs and norms in their "notes" to guests. SBP used to have a printed booklet with assorted island information on beaches, activities, restaurants etc. which definitely specified how much maids should be tipped per room per day. If every villa agency and hotel clarified restaurant policy/service compris, etc. at least guests, especially first timers, would have the information. I'm sure the restaurants would not be happy but they should not be taking advantage to begin with! We personally have not had the "ask" happen too often, heading back next month and will definitely be watching.
 
My wife and I go to St. Barths every other year. We are not big foodies so we do not go to the higher class restaurants. I don't remember ever being asked for a tip at Les Bananiers, Le Piment, Le Repaire, the restaurant on Shell Beach, or the few places we visited in Gustavia. We always tip anyway and always get thanked and great service. I suggest that this board is a great place to "out" the restaurants who insist on getting tips and we can then all vote with our feet. They'll get the message sooner or later.
 
Interesting etymology of se faire duper (contraction of dé-hupper) then its evolution to être pris pour un pigeon.
Un aspect stupide
Loin d’être capillotracté, ce changement de sens est en effet dû à une origine, celle du mot « dupe ». Un animal tout droit descendu d’un sacré oiseau, la « huppe ». Un volatile qui doit son nom à sa huppe, c’est-à-dire sa crête. Ou du moins, comme l’indique Le Trésor de la langue française, « à son aspect stupide ». Quel rapport nous direz-vous encore avec le pigeon ? Eh bien ! il faut maintenant se diriger vers le verbe « duper ».

« Dé-hupper » (contracté en duper), note l’auteur Georges Planelles, c’était enlever la huppe de l’animal, et par là, le plumer. » Celui qui se faisait « duper », se faisait donc « plumer ». C’est-à-dire « avoir », mais aussi, par extension, « voler » et « dépouiller ».
Comme le pigeon était bien plus présent dans les rues que la huppe, les habitants ont naturellement préféré le mot « pigeon » au terme « huppe » pour qualifier une « dupe », puis, par vases communicants, un « sot ». Le dupé devant être quelque peu imbécile pour se laisser becqueter...
À noter qu’il existe d’autres noms d’oiseau pour qualifier notre transformation en « idiot ». Rappelons le terme « dindon », dans l’expression « être le dindon de la farce » mais également le mot « boloss ».
The etymology is interesting and FUNNY. Thank you, Cassidain.
 
The whole tipping situation here has really gotten out of hand. I don't mind tipping, as an American the habit is hard to break. But, now there is this feeling of being taken advantage of at some places these days. Mostly places that have out-of-control pricing to begin with. The arrogance of demanding a tip on a French island with French customs is ridiculous. I saw a story in The Journal a few weeks ago where someplace demanded a 30% tip from a customer, saying this is how it is done on St. Barths. This is NOT how it is done on St. Barths. I don't like feeling like a chump. I am glad to see that the Tourist Board and other government officials are trying to nip this problem in the bud before it gets worse.

So right on!
 
Please correct me if I am wrong…tourism is the driving economic force of my favorite Island? If that is so then blatantly asking for tips is_________________fill in the blank. See you on the beach
 
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