La Guerite

[Izzy]

Clinging to the French pourboire system of leaving something to the server who is not getting his/her proper cut of the gratuities coming in at the end of the night after the management takes their cut just simply seems lousy to me. This is NOT France...

American style tipping is then being used to subsidize owners who do not give the "proper cut" to their staff.

Reed: When you speak with the server, it would be interesting to learn how much of a problem greedy owners are on the island... And more interesting to learn who the worst offenders are...

 

[MIke R]

Some might not.

some in here didn't and baited it with a question

 

[pascaleschmidt]

We made reservations for Bonito during the last night of the Bucket. We reserved on OpenTable and had to provide a credit card number. We were informed that we would be charged 120 euros/person if we did not arrive for our reservation. Bonito is the most difficult reservation this week.

Bonito has many of the crews and boat owners with groups of 25 showing up for Bucket... They will do 200 plus "couverts" each night which may be a bit maddening... I'm going sunday night when it has calmed down.

 

[pascaleschmidt]

American style tipping is then being used to subsidize owners who do not give the "proper cut" to their staff.

Reed: When you speak with the server, it would be interesting to learn how much of a problem greedy owners are on the island... And more interesting to learn who the worst offenders are...

Many owners who know the staff will get tips from the american clientele will pay staff less...

 

[cassidain]

Many owners who know the staff will get tips from the american clientele will pay staff less...

Interesting

 

[mkunst]

"Cling to your ideas that someone working on an island which roughly costs 30% more than mainland France to reside (if not more) equates to what you would leave a server in France."

That's not really the point is it? All employees should be paid a "living" wage by their employer. What's a living wage will obviously vary by locale as well as the services provided workers by the government (e.g., healthcare). That we have developed this bizarre custom in the US whereby restaurant service personnel are paid a de minimis amount by their employers and their income largely left to the whim of the customer is not something to be exported as a positive model, imho. At the end of the day, it is bad for the customer and the employee. It only benefits the employer. If a business cannot or will not pay its employees properly, it should not and will not remain in business long (Walmart excepted, of course).

Some restaurants in the US have tried to move the to a service compris model. I undertsand that this concept is not being widely adopted at a rapid rate, but one can hope. And, while I defer to the active caterers on this board, it has been my personal experience that catering service personnel are not tipped in a traditional sense in the US. Why should it be so different in restaurants?

I, for one, would rather that the restaurant owners charge 20% more on the menu and pay their employees appropriately (a living wage) than the current tip system. Apparently, now in St Barths one does not know if one is supposed to tip or not. While this may not matter to some of you, especially if there are only one or two in your party, we are 4, 5 or more when we dine out. The extra $100 on a $500 bill is enough to make me think twice about whether we dine out or in on a particular evening.

I suspect that the reason that the tip system has lasted so long in the US without complaint from employees is that it allowed for somewhat creative tax filings by the tipped employees. Now that the use of cash has diminished significantly and thereby reduced the ability of a tipped employee to be creative on reporting their income for tax purposes, I suspect that the receipt of a large portion of one's annual income as tips will lose its allure.

 

[MIke R]

That's a slippery slope though because I know many many waiters who work both here in the ski resort I live in and on the Cape where I work in the summer and they make seriously big coin on the current pay model ..way way more than they would on the European model, and I am sure they wouldn't want it any different at all ........hard to put the genie back in the bottle .....

 

[mkunst]

That's a slippery slope though because I know many many waiters who work both here in the ski resort I live in and on the Cape where I work in the summer and they make seriously big coin on the current pay model ..way way more than they would on the European model, and I am sure they wouldn't want it any different at all ........hard to put the genie back in the bottle .....

I did too, when I was on that circuit many moons ago. To be a healthy 20 something again . . . . But, the people I am talking about are aren't those people. There really aren't that many of those.

 

[cassidain]

"If a business cannot or will not pay its employees properly, it should not and will not remain in business long (Walmart excepted, of course)."

...and other than the free market of employers and employees, who gets to determine what's "proper pay" ?

 

[MIke R]

. . . . But, the people I am talking about are aren't those people. There really aren't that many of those.

I dont know about that .... a lot of people I know who are in the right restaurants in the right resort towns are doing quite well.....even my wife who works alone in our Cafe for a few hours a day on a few weekday mornings when it's slow , has been tossing her tips in a jar for vacation, and it is quite a bit of money ....a lot of these guys and gals are killing it

 

[MIke R]

I don't know what rents are like on St Bart's or how crazy high rents are, but on the outer Cape 10,000 bucks gets you a crappy small damp one bedroom cottage for the summer season and it's no where near town center ....Memorial Day to Labor Day ....so American kids have given up working here and have moved on to other work markets somewhere else ....but Eastern European kids pile 4-6 into one of those one bedroom cottages and somehow make enough money to justify doing it because they keep coming back .....but those are awfully cramped lousy living conditions which most American kids would want no part of ....

I suspect the same thing is occurring in St Bart's ......and if that's the case the European model of tipping just doesn't work in terms of sustainability

 

[Reed]

Regarding "proper pay" I listen to what I am hearing from colleagues and employees that know other people that work for other caterers. For example, there is another caterer that pays a little more $$$ than I do per hour (which is $17-25 per hour for waitstaff) but they may not be giving their staff all the tips from clients. I would NEVER not give someone their gratuity that they earned to the point of me loosing $$$ when the client says "can you throw another $500 on my credit card for the tip" which I take a hit on but still give the staff what the client intended. I have clients who try to tip me which I decline as the owner but ask the client if they feel compelled, to pass the tip onto my staff. Typical gratuities on Nantucket range from on the very low side (this is only my business I am speaking of) $50 per staff member to as high as $200 per staff member that worked a gig which sometimes could be a 2 hour cocktail party or 3-4 hour dinner soiree. Wedding gratuities which I DO NOT add on to the bill are more generous. Keep in mind that the people who work with me have at least one other job if not 2 and 80% of my staff is not American. I do not have much waitstaff turn over unless someone has moved on to start their career after graduating college or has moved from Nantucket because they know they will never be able to afford a home there. I still have 4 chefs who moved on for that reason who come down on random weekends to help me out. I am very blessed with the family who have worked with me over the years

 

[didier]

I don't mind if american's over tip. I am not going to. I live on the island and I don't need to support some twenty something that is working in a restaurant on the island. thats just my take. I will leave my 2 to 5 euros. end of story.

 

[waynek]

And isn't rent in Paris also very expensive - that doesn't seem to affect the tipping culture there. And, although I have never been, I imagine that places like St. Tropez are similar, if not worse than Cape Cod.

 

[andynap]

 

[MIke R]

And isn't rent in Paris also very expensive - that doesn't seem to affect the tipping culture there. And, although I have never been, I imagine that places like St. Tropez are similar, if not worse than Cape Cod.

The difference being you can choose to live 5 10 even 20 miles outside of Paris to lower your cost of living......but in St Bart's you re stuck on the rock ...no where to go to get away from the high prices

even in Vail the very high number of Latino service workers live in Leadville and Minturn, so it works out reasonably for them

in the ski resort I live in we have a high number of South American service workers who work here but can't afford to live here so we send a bus to a neighboring college town to pick them up in the morning and take them home early evening ...rents there are significantly cheaper ....and this way we don't have a worker shortage ...,money well spent

 

[MIke R]

View attachment 41591

LOL



Set your calendar and or clocks


we ll be back at it in a month or so ....like it never happened before

 

[andynap]

LOL



Set your calendar and or clocks


we ll be back at it in a month or so ....like it never happened before
]

It never changes anyone's mind and we all go on as before.

 

[MIke R]

Yep. .....but hey ....we put the fun in dysfunctional !!!

 

[MIke R]

So what's next in the Groundhog Day rotation? ...longpants or shorts ???...ferry or plane?....Winaor or Commuter ?...villa or hotel ?.....to Rez or not to Rez ?