NO REOPENING CAN BE CONSIDERED BEFORE WE CAN TEST THE ENTRANTS

didier said:
Laurent, the 350 euros per person for lunch was not in a dream world. it happened over the holidays.

Kevins quote on january 10th on this forum: "What little interest I had in Shellona faded completely when they were charging a minimum of 350E per person over the holidays".

I get your frustration Laurent, I wish the island could be open tomorrow, but its just not safe to be open right now. The residents and the prefect I am sure will choose health over money. its the only smart choice that they have.
Click to expand...

I don't feel particularly frustrated, but I hear your fear. (I think it's legit, and I share it to a certain point.)
And so, I guess we will not agree anyway.

But fortunately, neither you, me, the residents, or the préfète will decide to re-open the island, or not.
The French government will.
And according to the willingness of the président Bruno Magras, and to the Prime Minister Edouard Philippe's declarations 3 days ago,
the re-open should come pretty soon.
 
Laurent is right. Even if the local Préfets have some sort of wiggle room, the French government will have the final say about the borders. For the best or for the worst.

This forum is about SBH, but one should not forget that the island is just a tiny piece of France. We love to think that our “small kingdom” makes its own rules, and in certain cases it does, but in the big picture, the Republic remains in place with the final authority being Mr. Macron.

In this context, “La Constitution” must be respected and applied to all citizens.

Additionally, even if SBH is no longer part of the EU, France still is, and as such the country in its whole must comply with European regulations (with some local exceptions). When Mr. Macron and his Government make a decision about the country, they MUST ensure it does not interfere with EU law.

Mrs. Sylvie Feucher, is the “Préfète déléguée” for St. Martin and St. Barth. She answers to Mr. Philippe Gustin, Préfet of Guadeloupe. And Guadeloupe, let’s not forget, IS part of the EU.

This complex political environment explains why the decision to open borders will not be made by our local king. And, unfortunately, the decision will not be a very democratic one. There will be no vote or referendum about opening the borders or not. The local population will have no decision power whatsoever in the process, even if they decide strongly against it.

There are already "local arrangements" in place for the French Caribbean. For example, Mr. Gustin decided that all transatlantic flights (from Paris) will be limited to 130 seats so as to increase social distancing inside the cabin of the wide-body airliners. Also, the mandatory quarantine for arriving passengers is still in place for Guadeloupe, Martinique, St. Martin and St. Barth, although considered unconstitutional by the Conseil Constitutionnel last week, in the name of “individual freedom”.

Furthermore, one could ask why is the mandatory quarantine not applicable in the other direction? There are literally thousands of passengers currently flying every week from Guadeloupe and Martinique to Paris. Air France is one of the only airlines operating flights between the Caribbean and Europe, and as such, hundreds of Europeans (not French) are currently heading back home on these “repatriation flights”, including people flying from neighboring islands such as Antigua. All these passengers, as soon as they touch European soil in Paris are NOT required to enter quarantine. These flights operate thanks to the French Government imposing the territorial continuity (“continuité territoriale”) between the mainland and the overseas territories. Air France does not even have a choice, they must fly between Paris and the French overseas territories (by the way the airline just received a state aid of 7 billions euros).

Now, looking at the big picture, while it is understandable that the French islands must be preserved for obvious reasons (lack of hospital beds), it is difficult to admit that the “individual freedom” principle is not equal for all French citizens, depending on which side of the Atlantic you’re currently located:

Traveling from St. Barth to Paris: no quarantine
Traveling from Paris to St. Barth: 14 days self-quarantine (Paris or anywhere else to St. Barth)

All the above explains why the decisions to relax border protection is a difficult one, and the Republic should and will act consequently.

I wouldn’t be surprised to see borders re-opening soon, maybe as soon as June 2[SUP]nd[/SUP], which seems to be the date when the whole nation will come out of lockdown completely (no more restrictions). We’re still 2 weeks away though, and if a second wave of the pandemic hits the country before that date, decisions to re-enter lockdown is a possibility mentioned by the Government.

As far as the mandatory quarantine goes, I can see its cancelation soon enough. As it was stated by another poster, the Prime Minister, Mr. Edouard Philippe, has announced that the French citizens will be allowed to go on vacation this summer, anywhere across the country, including overseas. This means that, no later than July, the mandatory quarantine will be canceled (as it would be impossible to impose a self-quarantine of 14 days for tourists). Once again, all pending a stabilization of the pandemic.

Finally, let’s note that most Caribbean islands still have their borders closed. Very few have airports open (except for state, military and ambulance flights). Most local airlines have come to a standstill. This includes SXM airport. While St. Maarten Government is slowly allowing businesses to re-open, there is no mention of borders re-opening (other than the one between the French side and the Dutch side). It might take a while until we start seeing commercial flights landing in Juliana airport again.
 
Might the constitutionality of testing entrants be challenged? If so, would it be upheld: for French citizens?, for other EU citizens? for those from outside the EU?

The upholding of a law requiring "bone age" radiographs to verify age of migrants who claim to be minors and seek entry to France, although a very different situation, suggests to me that a medical testing requirement would be open to challenge but may be constitutional for tourists coming from outside France or the EU but I do not know enough about French Constitutional law, let alone its basis, to really have a clue about this or the issue of testing French and EU citizens that will likely arise sooner.

I took the liberty to provide a google translation of the link that Islander provided:

In its decision of May 11, the Constitutional Council, seized of the law of extension of the state of health emergency, validates several provisions, but in "censorship" of others, in particular the compulsory fortnight.

On the whole, the Constitutional Council did not raise any question of conformity with the Constitution on the law extending the State of health emergency. But, on the quarantine provisions of people likely to have contracted the virus, the institution expresses reservations about interpretation and censors the device.

"Concerning the regimes of quarantine and isolation measures, the Constitutional Council pronounces a reservation of interpretation and a censorship", indicates the decision of May 11 of the Constitutional Council seized of the law of extension of the State of health emergency .

“The Constitutional Council has ruled that these constitute deprivation of liberty, measures consisting in complete isolation, which implies a ban on" all going out ".

The same applies when they require the person concerned to stay at his home or in his place of accommodation for a time slot of more than 12 hours a day, ”writes the institution.

In other words, the compulsory quarantine of persons coming from abroad or arriving in an overseas community cannot be applied because "individual liberty can only be held to be safeguarded if the judge intervenes as soon as possible " And if the Council specifies that this cannot be extended “without the liberty and detention judge, previously seized by the prefect, having authorized this extension, no systematic intervention by a judicial judge is provided for in the others hypotheses ". In fact, “by a reservation of interpretation, the Constitutional Council judges that, consequently, these provisions cannot […] allow the prolongation of the measures of quarantine or placement in solitary confinement requiring the person concerned to remain at his home or in his place of accommodation during a time slot of more than twelve hours per day without the authorization of the judicial judge ”.

In conclusion, those currently under the strict fortnight should be released immediately. Contacted on this subject, the prefecture indicates that this does not call into question "the compelling reasons for traveling".
 
2 new cases of covid 19 and 2 more probable cases of covid 19 was confirmed on saturday may 16th on the french side st. martin.

Islander, of course France makes the decision when borders will be open here, but the prefect has a lot of input in this decision and with the new cases in st. martin, no way the borders will be open in June.
 
And as long as there are new cases in St Martin or Sint Maarten, I think it would be imprudent to open the borders. And "mandatory" self-quarantine is an oxymoron and no one seems to enforce it (or do it) ....
 
Living in a country ( Singapore) where quarantine is strictly enforced for any entrant on the territory, I can say that the main problem with SBH about quarantine is : where do people spend quarantine if they are tourists ? Where do you put people who are tested positive to the virus ? Who is caring for them ( food, laundry, ...) We have in Singapore big teams and facilities ( hotels, most of them being closed for a while) dedicated to that, generally paid by the government, sometimes not ( when the traveller decided to leave the country after March 27). I mean, I do not see how quarantine could be implemented in such a small island when it will reopen for tourists. Look at Spain which declared yesterday borders would reopen without any quarantine ( or tests) as soon as July, just on time for touristic season.
 
Clearly the (1[SUP]st[/SUP]) wave of the pandemic has been moving westbound across the world. Asia, Middle East, Europe, North America, …. And now Latin America.

Once the peak of that wave has passed over a specific country (with a confirmed decrease of COVID-19 cases), authorities start to relax travel restrictions and re-open borders.

We are currently seeing this happening in Europe (except for the UK where the virus came a little later). Greece, Italy, Spain, and France (all trying to save the summer season) will progressively reopen their borders in the coming weeks. By July, most travel restrictions in Europe will be gone.

St Barth, being in the Americas region, geographically closer to the peak of the pandemic, is still exposed. The risk does not really come from its direct neighbors (the surrounding islands), however, the island is not too far from the US or Brazil where the pandemic is still very active. Additionally, the lack of hospital beds available locally (including in Guadeloupe/Martinique) might push the authorities to delay the unrestricted re-opening of borders.

The dilemma for the Government though is that the Caribbean territories are currently suffocating economically. More than in the mainland. The explanation is simple: tourism is the main industry here.

In a week from now (June 2[SUP]nd[/SUP]), it is likely that the French Government will release the last restrictions in place. Nationwide. The post-deconfinement period (2 weeks already) is showing good results. Except for a few clusters here and there, all indicators are in the green. The authorities are now focusing on the recovery of the economy, more than on the sanitary crisis itself, which is a sign that the center of attention has shifted.

What will happen in SBH?
As we know, the Préfète, Mrs. Feucher, has been very careful so far. One could say “over-protective”. And for good reasons, the only way to efficiently protect the local people from the virus was to isolate them from the rest of the world by closing the borders (super-easy to do on islands). As a matter of fact, ALL CARIBBEAN ISLANDS have followed the exact same strategy against the spread of the virus.

Now, under the Republic, Mrs. Feucher, somehow, will have to follow the general guidelines issued by the Government, but at the same time taking into account the local specifics of the region. Her task is not easy! There’ll probably be a lot of head-scratching this week, as the 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] of June deadline is approaching at high speed.

The new “border form” published last Friday (May 22[SUP]nd[/SUP]) is already making room for more access to the island, with several possible scenarios. Though, the complexity of these scenarios (I don’t know about you, but I personally had to read the document 3-4 times before getting a full grip) shows that there is still some confusion in the strategy and that each step leaning toward the reopening is taken very cautiously.

Disclaimer: the following is merely a speculation exercise, based on my own interpretation. It does not reflect any decision made by the government (it is all “in my humble opinion”). If you only believe in facts, don't read!

As early as June 2[SUP]nd[/SUP], but no later than June 30[SUP]th[/SUP]:

- The “motives” for travel will disappear, in line with the national guidelines. This means in plain language: free movement of people. No more explanation needed such as “family matter”, “professional reason”, “health reason” …..Access to visitors will be granted again (probably with some exceptions initially, such as for people coming from highly infected areas).

- Border forms (attestations) will disappear and be replaced by a self-declaration of good health (COVID-19 specific) upon arrival (a form to complete in which you agree to seek prompt medical advise if symptoms appear during your stay, and to self-quarantine immediately).

- Some clear instructions will be issued to all entrants: brochure with symptoms procedure, sanitary precautions, important health professionals contact numbers, etc...

- Testing upon arrival, even if strongly recommended during the initial phase, will only be made available on a voluntary basis. A variant of this could be that the local authorities require a PCR test made at home 7 days before entering St. Barth. An option already discussed in other countries.

"Testing all entrants" no longer seems to be an option. First because it now appears that it is illegal to force someone in taking a test (which explains why the new border form has several options), and next because the logistics involved in testing all visitors are quite demanding (as opposed to testing the local population only).

It goes without saying that existing preventive measures will still apply for months to come (wearing a face mask when deemed necessary, social distancing, sanitizing procedures, etc..).

There is not such thing as "zero risk", however, when borders will reopen, the number of people showing symptoms (or tested positive) after their arrival will be low enough to be considered almost negligible. In this case, visitors will be handled in the same way as the locals. Under medical supervision, in case of light symptoms: mandatory self-isolation at home, your villa…. or space permitting at a dedicated location provided by the authorities; in case of serious symptoms such as respiratory problems: medical evacuation to Guadeloupe, or anywhere else should the patient privately pay for it (some travel insurance cover for a private/medical aircraft to fly home). Reminder: the local hospital is not equipped with ventilators and only has very limited ICU capacities.

The French government confirmed yesterday that it was okay to book travel arrangements for this summer. The guideline is to stay “within the country” as much as possible, and as such avoid traveling abroad. By “country”, they mean the whole nation, including the overseas territories (French Caribbean, French Polynesia, New Caledonia, Reunion, …). The summer holidays officially starting on July 1[SUP]st[/SUP], it is likely that St Barth will re-open for tourism no later than that date (and possibly earlier).

SXM airport is still closed, but some airlines have already scheduled some flights (I heard about Delta and JetBlue). However, one should be careful before booking firm travels as the decision to reopen SXM airport lies entirely in the hands of the Sint Maarten Government. There have been several meetings already and the official reopening date should be known shortly.

For Europeans, there are already many options available to reach SBH via Paris and Guadeloupe. Air France never stopped flying across the Atlantic, and the local airlines are already operating between the islands (Air Caraïbes, St Barth Commuter, Air Antilles Express…) with more flights being added in the next weeks.

Tradewind Aviation announced that they would resume scheduled operations from San Juan to St Barths starting June 1[SUP]st[/SUP], giving at least one option for North American visitors (all pending to the authorities ‘decisions).

In​ ​conclusion, within the next few days, the situation about the existing travel restrictions and border reopening should be clarified. Once Paris will make the 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] of June announcements, it is expected that the local authorities (Préfecture de St Martin et St Barthélemy) will follow. My bet is that by Friday May 29[SUP]th[/SUP], we should know a lot more about all this and hopefully the announcements will cut the above speculations short.

A few more days of patience.
 
1. highly unlikely sbh or sxm will open borders in june. and even if borders are required by france to open in june or july, there will be too many restrictions ( tests or confinement) to make it tourist friendly.

2. several top hotels will not open until oct/nov. most do not want to bring their staff back to the island until then.

3. several restaurants and hot spots for tourists are also not planning on opening till oct/nov.

4. large cruise ships have no plans to begin operations anytime soon,

5. even if the borders open, it will most likely not make much of a difference in the economy here in my opinion.

False hope is more dangerous than fears. quote from j.r.r. tolkien
 
didier said:
1. highly unlikely sbh or sxm will open borders in june.
Click to expand...

Time will tell, but as I said above, my view is that the borders will open between June 2nd and June 30th, as French holidays officially start on July 1st (unless there is a second wave of the pandemic, which, by looking at the numbers, is unlikely at this point).

didier said:
and even if borders are required by france to open in june or july, there will be too many restrictions ( tests or confinement) to make it tourist friendly.
Click to expand...

One can only speculate (as I've done above), but there are a few signs showing a possible loosening, including the new border form published last Friday which already includes, under specific conditions, an option to enter without testing/quarantine.

You're right. The current procedure is clearly not "tourist friendly", but in my opinion this will change as soon as the borders reopen to welcome the vacationers (again, no later than July 1st IMHO). The Government would simply not allow French tourists (or others) to visit the French Caribbean if they knew that the mandatory quarantine would still be applicable. It would make absolutely no sense to welcome visitors only to put them in quarantine as soon as they arrive.

didier said:
2. several top hotels will not open until oct/nov. most do not want to bring their staff back to the island until then.
Click to expand...

Sure, this is totally understandable. Many seasonal workers have left already and it would be complicated to start recruiting again for just a few weeks. Luckily, there are plenty of other accommodation options still available: a very large offer of villa rentals, airbnb's, or smaller hotels...

didier said:
3. several restaurants and hot spots for tourists are also not planning on opening till oct/nov.
Click to expand...

So what? Again, still plenty of "St Barth" to enjoy.

didier said:
4. large cruise ships have no plans to begin operations anytime soon,
Click to expand...

Perfect! Hopefully it will stay that way. More space available, especially in Gustavia. Anyway, St Barth is more "Eclipse" than "Symphony of the Seas".

didier said:
5. even if the borders open, it will most likely not make much of a difference in the economy here in my opinion.
Click to expand...

I believe many people will disagree with that statement. Especially those who could easily use some business coming their way. The whole island economy is based on tourism, one way or another, any resident still engaged in a professional activity depends, directly or indirectly, on the $ spent by the visitors. SBH is known for welcoming summer visitors (especially French/Europeans, but also some North Americans, who like the slower pace). July and August are usually good business months.

Also, many surrounding islands will still be closed. If SBH could open and attract some visitors looking for a safe place to spend their summer vacation, it can only bring some cashflow to the island economy.

didier said:
False hope is more dangerous than fears. quote from j.r.r. tolkien
Click to expand...

No false hope here. Only hope.
 
didier said:
1. highly unlikely sbh or sxm will open borders in june. and even if borders are required by france to open in june or july, there will be too many restrictions ( tests or confinement) to make it tourist friendly.
Click to expand...

All recent official statements say the exact opposite. True that most are in french, so you may have missed some. (if you read french : please accept my apologies)

didier said:
2. several top hotels will not open until oct/nov. most do not want to bring their staff back to the island until then.
Click to expand...
yes and no. For instance Le Toiny has announced re-opening mid June. Rooms at Eden Rock will remain closed until next October, but today : bar, restaurant, beach bar, are open, and they will welcome clients and offer accommodation on villas via the Eden Rock Villa rentals as soon as possible
As well said by islander : St Barth accommodation's offer is not only the big 5 stars hotels, but it's villas, small and medium sized hotels too. More than enough to have a summer season anyway.

didier said:
3. several restaurants and hot spots for tourists are also not planning on opening till oct/nov.
Click to expand...
Maybe, I don't know but I believe you. Could you please share the informations you have ?

didier said:
4. large cruise ships have no plans to begin operations anytime soon,
Click to expand...
Totally right ! Like every year, as they spend the summer time in the Med or elsewhere, far away from the Caribbean at this time of the year.

didier said:
5. even if the borders open, it will most likely not make much of a difference in the economy here in my opinion.
Click to expand...
Very respectable opinion.
But with all due respect, let me give you some informations on the St Barth's economy.
The economy here, is not only -and far from being- only the 5 big hotels with a bunch of seasonal staff.
The economy is also :
- shops, restaurants, services (coachs, hair dressers, health, travel agencies, rentals agencies, car rental companies... the list is endless),
- leisure activities : sports, scuba diving, windsurfing, snorkeling rental equipment, boating, surfing and all the "ings",
- transport companies, by sea, by air. By the way : how do you think "the fresh" arrives here ? I mean fruits, dairy products, meat etc...?
if you don't know : it travels by air on commercial/tourist flights.
No flights = no fresh. Plain and simple.
the economy is too : the fishermen,
summer jobs for students and youth,
construction workers. Did you know the summer time is usually a very busy period for it ?
Do you know why ?

And so on...

Really, I'm sure all of these people will be happy that re-opening in another 6 months is not an issue at all, because :
"November will be here before we know it, time flies don't you know"

I've decided not to debate these matters anymore as our exchanges will not make any difference,
but I couldn't resist to share some details and informations you may have missed.

And at the end, the point is not to know who is right, or who is wrong,
because we will be fixed by the end of the week.

I just wanted to tell you that you don't have to be so scared :
if the borders open within a week or 2 (and of course, I think they will),
it will be very easy here to stay away from people and keep a "confined way of life " :
- groceries delivery,
- still a ton of places to walk, run, swim, sport, do things, away from anyone
- will be very few visitors anyway, so plenty of space at restaurants, shops...

my bet : July & August, you won't see any difference, and November will be here in a wink. really, nothing to worry about.
 
Well stated Laurent but my opinion means very little. I'm longing for some quiet time away from the madness in Washington, DC. I work extremely long work days and periodically need a respite to recharge my battery. I'm overdue.
 
didier said:
5. even if the borders open, it will most likely not make much of a difference in the economy here in my opinion.
Click to expand...
I won't even offer an opinion on when I think St Barth will open up because I'd be guessing and am pretty much ignorant on the topic, but I'm confused by this comment. Tourism is the biggest part of the economy, no? So how could the borders opening not make much of a difference in the economy? I would think villa owners and villa brokers and restaurants owners (that are open of course) and shop owners and hotels and bakeries and pretty much everyone that is open would be cautiously ecstatic if the borders opened and would absolutely be better off and perhaps some of the places that are closed would open earlier than they originally expected. I wouldn't expect an immediate feeling of things being back to normal of course, but one must walk before one can run
 
Jim A said:
I won't even offer an opinion on when I think St Barth will open up because I'd be guessing and am pretty much ignorant on the topic, but I'm confused by this comment. Tourism is the biggest part of the economy, no? So how could the borders opening not make much of a difference in the economy? I would think villa owners and villa brokers and restaurants owners (that are open of course) and shop owners and hotels and bakeries and pretty much everyone that is open would be cautiously ecstatic if the borders opened and would absolutely be better off and perhaps some of the places that are closed would open earlier than they originally expected. I wouldn't expect an immediate feeling of things being back to normal of course, but one must walk before one can run
Click to expand...


Hi Jim.

I had not planned on replying to this thread anymore. it seems redundant to do so.

but I will answer Jim's question to why I think opening the borders early in june or july will not make much of a difference in the economy here right now. the tourists will be subjected to either tests or quarantine or both, which will keep away a lot of tourists. some people will be afraid to fly because of this virus risk, so those people will not be coming here. The amount of tourists who decide to travel here will be very few, so that is my reason for my response about how it would not be much help to the economy here for july/august this year. if the same amount of people decided to come here that normally do during this time ( we call it the low season for a reason ) then it would be a different story, but that will not be the case.

I am done with this thread now, I am moving on.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Stay At Any One Of These Villas...
Get A FREE Rental Car For The Duration Of Your Stay.


Villa Les Embruns
Flamands, St Barts
2 Bdrm/2Bath, Pool
View Villa
Value Villas on St Barts
Villa Diamond
St Jean, St. Barts
2 Bdrm, 2 Bath Pool
View Villa
Villas With Free Car
Villa C'est Ma Vue
St Jean, St Barts
3 Bdrm/ 3 Ba/ Pool
View Villa
Top