Residency permit

Hello all
Can anyone help with procedure to obtain a residency permit for US citizens? We just purchased an apartment on St. Barth and plan to live on the island for approx 7 mos/year. In preparation for this we obtained long term visas(type D). We were told last year on the island that we needed long term visas for this but now the visa center is saying no. Would greatly appreciate any insight into the process.

Unless you're intending to be employed (as opposed to operating your own business) on the island, i think that it's unnecessary for you to get any permit. That is, employment requires some sort of residency card, which is not easy to obtain. Merely living on the island, on the other hand, has to be assessed in terms of a legal limitation vs. local practice.

I believe that French law, that is, limits US visitors (perhaps others outside the EU, as well) to being on the island a maximum of 90 nights in a 12 month period. In practical terms, however, I know many people who exceed the 90 day limitation with never so much as a "peep" from anyone. In this regard, I one time gently inquired of a senior SBH official about the 90 day rule, and the response was, "Has anyone asked you to leave?"

If a visitor were to make a big deal in officialdom about the issue, I'm confident that authorities will feel compelled to insist that the law will be enforced. On the other hand, barring such self-defeating behavior, law-abiding, financially solvent visitors to the island appear to be welcome at all times. Why not?

understood cec1...thank you!

cec1 said:

Unless you're intending to be employed (as opposed to operating your own business) on the island, i think that it's unnecessary for you to get any permit. That is, employment requires some sort of residency card, which is not easy to obtain. Merely living on the island, on the other hand, has to be assessed in terms of a legal limitation vs. local practice.

I believe that French law, that is, limits US visitors (perhaps others outside the EU, as well) to being on the island a maximum of 90 nights in a 12 month period. In practical terms, however, I know many people who exceed the 90 day limitation with never so much as a "peep" from anyone. In this regard, I one time gently inquired of a senior SBH official about the 90 day rule, and the response was, "Has anyone asked you to leave?"

If a visitor were to make a big deal in officialdom about the issue, I'm confident that authorities will feel compelled to insist that the law will be enforced. On the other hand, barring such self-defeating behavior, law-abiding, financially solvent visitors to the island appear to be welcome at all times. Why not?

Click to expand...

Interesting response Dennis, thank you. Curious that there would be a "French" law and a "island" perspective. My worry would be if a US passport holder (who owns a home on SBH say) who travels a lot within those 7 months. Would Customs at the airport upon arrival see all the stamps and deduce how long you've been on the island and if its over 90 days not allow entry? just curious as someone who is buying on SBH soon as well but hasn't looked at the visa situation yet.

I've had zero difficulty, Thomas, in coming-&-going . . . and I frequently, and irregularly, arrive & depart throughout the year. It now is at the point that, as gendarmes turn page after page of arrival stamps, they say "welcome home." I suppose that it could change, but I don't think it will as long as I'm law-abiding and a contributor to the local economy (and "contributor" entails more than spending money, it also speaks to developing positive relations with residents -- smiles & greetings to neighbors, gendarmes, merchants (especially neighborhood shops such as Jojo's grocery store and the bakeries) . . . joining in community events (Music Festival, Film Festival, neighborhood fetes, holiday parades, matches of the "Barracudas" rugby team) . . . showing support for new enterprises (Cafe Gloriette, for example) . . . etc.. Making even a small effort with French also is winning (and, believe me, with my very small vocabulary and "tin ear" for pronunciation of French sounds, my success in the language has been small, but clearly is appreciated -- even enjoyed -- by many).

You have the right positive approach and the charm to go with it, Dennis.

Thank you, Amy . . . I know that you share my feeling of SBH as "home" and treat it, and year-round residents, as our community.

I've never been asked to leave. It's complying with the "directive" that I come back soon that I've had some trouble with lately. :sad1:

Typically, laws are flexible because nothing is static in life. As Dennis put so well (my paraphrasing) - being a real part of a community gives you some immunity to "strict interpretation." Nothing wrong with being part of the family ya want to be with.

Always happy to see you are making a post. I too hope you soon get back to THAT ISLE soon.

Thnx Amy. I do try to keep in touch. So many friends here, some who don't even post - we keep in touch. I should add that there are some parts of the world where I've been asked (told) to leave. Fine. There are so many places that are "home." SBH is certainly on that list.

73s & 88s to you and Phil

Seeing a post from you, Voosh, is always a great reminder of happy times in meetings on SBH. Looking forward to a return visit!

Ah Voosh,

Always nice to see you drop in, if only for a moment.

cec1 said:

Unless you're intending to be employed (as opposed to operating your own business) on the island, i think that it's unnecessary for you to get any permit. That is, employment requires some sort of residency card, which is not easy to obtain. Merely living on the island, on the other hand, has to be assessed in terms of a legal limitation vs. local practice.

I believe that French law, that is, limits US visitors (perhaps others outside the EU, as well) to being on the island a maximum of 90 nights in a 12 month period. In practical terms, however, I know many people who exceed the 90 day limitation with never so much as a "peep" from anyone. In this regard, I one time gently inquired of a senior SBH official about the 90 day rule, and the response was, "Has anyone asked you to leave?"

If a visitor were to make a big deal in officialdom about the issue, I'm confident that authorities will feel compelled to insist that the law will be enforced. On the other hand, barring such self-defeating behavior, law-abiding, financially solvent visitors to the island appear to be welcome at all times. Why not?

Click to expand...

Hmm.... dodgy if you ask me.... the "senior SBH official" in question is not above the law. Also, do not confuse "residency" with "employment", two very different things to discuss here. It is not true that if you're not employed in St. Barths, residency requirements can be waived or ignored.

While the Gendarmes might appear friendly upon arrival at the airport, French immigration law is still applicable on the island and one day you might stumble upon a zealous officer who will check passport stamps or cross check the information on the computer (that is why they scan the biometric passport page on arrival, isn't it?). If you're over your 90 days per 12 months and do not have the required Visa or Permit, well you might just find yourself being in trouble. Remember the Gendarmerie and Police aux Frontières are National Law Enforcement units, not local units. This means that they will apply French Law and nothing else.

Worse, if one is flagged trying to sneak into a European country illegally, criminal records could be filed all across EU nations. Not worth it!

It is better to apply for the correct Visa or Permit. This website is useful: https://www.welcometofrance.com/en/applying-for-a-long-stay-visa

It looks like the correct Visa to get would be the "VLS-TS" : Visa de Long Séjour valant Titre de Séjour. This is an extension of the Long Stay Visa (as it is valid between 3 and 12 months) and easier to obtain than the Residence permit (a much more thorough process).

Last, don't even think for one minute that being "integrated" in the community will grant you the right to live here without proper documentation. Being a "contributor" simply doesn't cut it (while it might appear so on the outside).

Thanks, islander, for alerting everyone to your sense of the issue . . . a valuable perspective.

I agree with Islander. you never know when you might be an over zealous gendarme. There is the legal way to do it, and the I'll take my chances way to do it...

You're right, Ellen . . . and let's be clear that with respect to the "I'll take my chances way to do it," I wrote: ". . . I suppose that it could change . . .."

When in doubt, why worry. After reading all of this, Islander would have me persuaded to make the easy effort to obtain a Long Stay Visa Extension. Then you never have to look over your shoulder except for another Le Ti Punch!

Thank you Islander
Agree that this is the way to go. My wife and I have applied for and been granted 2 long term visas, Long Sejour
temporaire, not VLS-TS. When I emailed the French Embassy and asked how I can convert these to the VLS-TS, they replied that it is impossible.
Then I asked what to do to apply for the VLS-TS. This was the reply:

The forms are the same.

The decision to grant one or the other depends on the documents you have provided.
Next time you apply you can request a VLS-TS, but this does not necesarily mean this will be the one that is granted.

Pretty absurd imho.

Is this why there is no more French Empire?

cec1 said:

You're right, Ellen . . . and let's be clear that with respect to the "I'll take my chances way to do it," I wrote: ". . . I suppose that it could change . . .."

Click to expand...

and you are absolutely correct... one never knows!

shm1 said:

Thank you Islander
Agree that this is the way to go. My wife and I have applied for and been granted 2 long term visas, Long Sejour
temporaire, not VLS-TS. When I emailed the French Embassy and asked how I can convert these to the VLS-TS, they replied that it is impossible.
Then I asked what to do to apply for the VLS-TS. This was the reply:

The forms are the same.

The decision to grant one or the other depends on the documents you have provided.
Next time you apply you can request a VLS-TS, but this does not necesarily mean this will be the one that is granted.

Pretty absurd imho.

Is this why there is no more French Empire?

Click to expand...

Actually the French still have a bit of an empire.. Martinique, Guadeloupe, Marie Galante, Les Saintes, Desirade, St Barh, St Martiin, St Pierre Miquelon, New Caledonia.. all French, either overseas departments or territories, all flying the French flag...

Frankly, I'd go to the Prefecture in Gustavia and ask about it...