Beach Conditions

amyb said:
I am stunned seeing this damage. It really is devastating to see the destruction from Irma. Your pictures are doing a great job of showing the progress in the islandwide clean up and hopefully the rebirth of so many wounded properties.
Click to expand...

Flamand was really hit hard,especially by large waves and beach erosion.This explains a lot of the damage there.One could expect "tortue" to protect the beach.It doesn't seem to be the case.
You can check the house near "la langouste",built on "micro pieux".The structure hasn't moved (even if lower levels were flooded)
Lots of the other houses on the beach will need to be demolished and rebuilt.
Looking at the damage of "taiwana" and "cheval blanc",does someone think they will reopen in october 2018 ?

How to conceive a sublime building,villa,hotel to deal with such storms ? quite a fascinating debate,and it will have a massive impact on the collectivity tax revenues for decades.

Higher buildings and much more concrete on beaches.That seems to be the way forward.
 
chris83 said:
How to conceive a sublime building,villa,hotel to deal with such storms ? quite a fascinating debate,and it will have a massive impact on the collectivity tax revenues for decades.
Click to expand...

yes, this will add millions of euros in tax revenue as one of the largest sources of income for the island is the 5% import duty...so just imagine the boatloads of construction materials and furniture and appliances coming onto the island in the next few years that would not have been necessary without the massive rebuilding process..the import duties will be massive as well... then once the import duties begin to slow as the buildings are finished and the large hotels begin to reopen, the 5% occupancy tax will ramp up again and provide an ongoing revenue stream...
 
That certainly helps balance the budget, Ellen. Good to know. Your input has been so helpful in dealing with the details of island economics and recovery.
 
Thanks for the realistic update. Nature will rebuild quickly if man gets out of the way. Sand constantly shifts as we have all seen and reaches an equilibrium state of beauty. Feel bad for all the property owners. but time will heal the wounds. Hope Toiny Beach stays the way God and nature (whichever your preference) intended it to be. Undeveloped, unspoiled and unused except by those with the boards, knowledge and skill to use it safely!
 
carmen said:
Thanks for the realistic update. Nature will rebuild quickly if man gets out of the way. Sand constantly shifts as we have all seen and reaches an equilibrium state of beauty. Feel bad for all the property owners. but time will heal the wounds. Hope Toiny Beach stays the way God and nature (whichever your preference) intended it to be. Undeveloped, unspoiled and unused except by those with the boards, knowledge and skill to use it safely!
Click to expand...

Considering the damage seen in Flamand,it is safe to say human intervention will be necessary for rebuilding...and during a few years.
And it won't be nature...but Rene Super Beton,to make it quicker.

I also think your image is very beautiful and romantic....God or nature rectifying the mistakes of men.So poetic
 
chris83 said:
Considering the damage seen in Flamand,it is safe to say human intervention will be necessary for rebuilding...and during a few years.
And it won't be nature...but Rene Super Beton,to make it quicker.

I also think your image is very beautiful and romantic....God or nature rectifying the mistakes of men.So poetic
Click to expand...

Luckily environmentalists know that concrete walls and beaches are not good bedfellows and hopefully they will build in a more nature friendly way this time around... "beton" is not always the answer... my husband was born on Flamands beach 58 years ago and he'd be happy to discuss it with you...
 
A few tens of thousands of cubic meters of
concrete will solve the problem in Flamand ...
All the demolition will trigger the need for new building permits .We are about to discover if collectivity will allow the same size for villas and hotels.
Or if new shon/shob rules apply.
There is also a new big hotel project in Flamand .
The area is going to see massive construction for the next 5 years or so_Or more ,if building permits trigger endless litigation.
The Isle de France is going to be a massive project.it will surely bring up severe disagreements in the actual political context
An even more intriguing question :does it make sense to rebuild a ultra high end hotel on a beach when climate change is on the way ?
Can such a project even get insurance coverage ?
This is the real debate about beaches nowadays
It makes more sense to build in colombier ..beach is more protected there..and it has lovely sunset views several months a year
 
I would hope they leave Colombier alone...accessible by Sea or hiking trail has worked well for all these years to keep it the special destination it is.
 
chris83 said:
A few tens of thousands of cubic meters of
concrete will solve the problem in Flamand ...
All the demolition will trigger the need for new building permits .We are about to discover if collectivity will allow the same size for villas and hotels.
Or if new shon/shob rules apply.
There is also a new big hotel project in Flamand .
The area is going to see massive construction for the next 5 years or so_Or more ,if building permits trigger endless litigation.
The Isle de France is going to be a massive project.it will surely bring up severe disagreements in the actual political context
An even more intriguing question :does it make sense to rebuild a ultra high end hotel on a beach when climate change is on the way ?
Can such a project even get insurance coverage ?
This is the real debate about beaches nowadays
It makes more sense to build in colombier ..beach is more protected there..and it has lovely sunset views several months a year
Click to expand...


Chris, we agree on proper building methods to combat future hurricanes but I hope Colombier never ever sees any development, ditto for Saline and Gouverneur.
 
Come on..it would be great to have another Nikki beach in Colombier.
Sunset parties.more dancing....
It would also help reduce the traffic in St jean..something people keep complaining about
 
Unfortunately as long as it is allowed then people will build way too elaborate structures way too close to the water. Florida is a perfect example of what not to do to the coastline. But that doesn't change anything, we still develop the coastline here more and more. Just look at Florida as what not to do. The other unfortunate thing after a storm is the loss of the beach shacks that are the best place to get a drink or seafood. The old Florida charm is slowly dwindling away, hopefully that is not the same for the islands.

Sometimes people forget what drew them to a destination in the first place and that is typically the natural beauty and the small local spots that make it unique.
 
zcrambler said:
Unfortunately as long as it is allowed then people will build way too elaborate structures way too close to the water.

Sometimes people forget what drew them to a destination in the first place and that is typically the natural beauty and the small local spots that make it unique.
Click to expand...

There are a few specifics about the island.One of them is that all land is in private hands ..and lots of areas are classified as buildable.
The problem with beach shacks,case creole and various "typical caribbean architecture" is that IRMA vaporized them all.Some nostalgics wanted to keep them.Some wanted to tear them down.God decided (or nature).God (or nature) wanted change and evolution.

I also think people tend to forget that clientele changes,taste evolve.They loved renting old houses 20 years ago...Nowadays,very few clients want them....Try renting those contemporary houses and then going back to "case creole ":it is just impossible.

Look at the success of Nikki beach,shellona or isola....Quite far from the shacks tourists are supposed to love.
 
chris83 said:
There are a few specifics about the island.One of them is that all land is in private hands ..and lots of areas are classified as buildable.
The problem with beach shacks,case creole and various "typical caribbean architecture" is that IRMA vaporized them all.Some nostalgics wanted to keep them.Some wanted to tear them down.God decided (or nature).God (or nature) wanted change and evolution.

I also think people tend to forget that clientele changes,taste evolve.They loved renting old houses 20 years ago...Nowadays,very few clients want them....Try renting those contemporary houses and then going back to "case creole ":it is just impossible.

Look at the success of Nikki beach,shellona or isola....Quite far from the shacks tourists are supposed to love.
Click to expand...

Yep, nothing you can do about the shacks getting wiped out by storms. Its just the loss of them combined with other development that can change an area so quickly.

It is such a tough situation because I don't want to see regulation against anyone and their property but at the same time how do you convince people not to destroy what they love? We are going through this in the town I live in right now. It is a debate that I just don't know the answer to.

I guess the question is regardless of type of housing available do the tourists that come care if there is a nice beach/landscape or not.
 
zcrambler said:
Yep, nothing you can do about the shacks getting wiped out by storms. Its just the loss of them combined with other development that can change an area so quickly.

It is such a tough situation because I don't want to see regulation against anyone and their property but at the same time how do you convince people not to destroy what they love? We are going through this in the town I live in right now. It is a debate that I just don't know the answer to.

I guess the question is regardless of type of housing available do the tourists that come care if there is a nice beach/landscape or not.
Click to expand...

exactly what "shacks" are you referring to.. please clarify?
 
elgreaux said:
exactly what "shacks" are you referring to.. please clarify?
Click to expand...

Just a general reference to all the great small places we have lost over the years here in Florida and I'm sure some have been lost over time on St Barth's and other islands. The small funky businesses in coastal towns are great but can be very vulnerable to the elements of winds and storm surges.
 
In my experience,it is much nicer to live (and work) in a dynamic location
Compare Paris and London ,compare Moscow and St. Petersburg
Dynamism attracts talent,culture
The success of Saint Barth (and president Magras ) is to have allowed Nikki beach or houses like "Dune",both bringing a new type of clientele.
People who think multi millionaires will (or want to )rent "old typical caribbean" houses in 2017 can simply witness what happens when a sale of such house unravels ..."Demolition " and "permis de construire "
 
chris83 said:
Come on..it would be great to have another Nikki beach in Colombier.
Sunset parties.more dancing....
It would also help reduce the traffic in St jean..something people keep complaining about
Click to expand...

Negative, you regrettably do not understand what makes this place special. More concrete and bigger are not always the answer.
 
Here's Shell Beach on Sunday afternoon. No chairs. No bar. Almost no people. I was told that Sheloma will reopen for the season, but I have seen no work going on there. The little "shack" Sunday's made it through just fine. I noticed that many of the simple smaller and much older homes are still there - all over the island.

I believe the insurance companies will decide what gets rebuilt. After these massive losses they will charge much more and require different standards if insurance is to be issued. A simple place like Niki Beach can be rebuilt without insurance because it can pay for itself in one season. But, the hotels on Flamands need insurance and then very high prices to pay for it. There still is the rest of the story.

Shell Beach.jpg
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Stay At Any One Of These Villas...
Get A FREE Rental Car For The Duration Of Your Stay.


Villa Les Embruns
Flamands, St Barts
2 Bdrm/2Bath, Pool
View Villa
Value Villas on St Barts
Villa Diamond
St Jean, St. Barts
2 Bdrm, 2 Bath Pool
View Villa
Villas With Free Car
Villa C'est Ma Vue
St Jean, St Barts
3 Bdrm/ 3 Ba/ Pool
View Villa
Top