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Thread: If not St Barth, where?

  1. #31
    scotth is offline
    SBH Member Joined: Sep 2010 Posts: 103

    Re: If not St Barth, where?

    Turks and Caicos (Provo) is one of our favorite places aside from SBH. From what I have read there was some damage from Irma, but nothing like the other islands. We are thinking of going the first week in November but I'm afraid some of the restaurants may be closed.

  2. #32
    TJH is offline
    SBH Member Joined: Jan 2013 North of Chicago Posts: 250

    Re: If not St Barth, where?

    We've been on a little break with St Barth after going annually for about a dozen years, have spent the last three Christmases in Puerto Rico with the family and have taken three trips in the last two years to St. John...and I fell in love. Right now, I have a mid-November trip planned for the hubby and I to Cruz Bay, and then a villa stay planned for Christmas with the whole family, adult children. Post-Irma and pre-Maria, we decided that we'd rebook both trips from St. John to St. Croix, so that we could keep our tourist dollars in the USVI, but I decided to wait to cancel and rebook until after Maria...and now after Maria, we're cancelling, but searching for another destination, so I appreciate this post. Our family trip is a bit more complicated because it's Christmas/NYE and we need three bedrooms. I've emailed our rental company on St. John to see if they'll hold our deposit for a 2018 rental, same time next year, but I'm a little pessimistic that they won't want to charge the 15% cancellation fee because I read a review from last week that someone else did not get their full deposit back, so we'll see. If not, I'll consider it another donation to St. John. For our family trip, we've decided on Belize. Not the same Caribbean, but it seems like a good option for our family right now. I haven't begun to work on the November trip yet, so I appreciate all of the comments and suggestions in this thread.

  3. #33
    bkeats is offline
    SBH Insider Joined: Jul 2010 Nuevo York Posts: 694

    Re: If not St Barth, where?

    We've been to St Kitts once and found it quite nice. It's got similar terrain as SBH. Dining options are pretty good though the French food and style is obviously not there. One benefit is you can fly direct from NYC. Prefer SBH to St Kitts, but if you are looking for alternatives in the area, I think St Kitts should be in consideration. From what I read, Irma and Maria didn't cause much damage there.

    Also look into Nevis. We haven't been but we have friends who go there regularly.

  4. #34
    chris83 is offline
    SBH Insider Joined: May 2017 Posts: 721

    Re: If not St Barth, where?

    Hello to all of you

    Guadeloupe Basse terre has been badly hit by Maria..:les saintes also...That is clearly not an option today.

    I wanted to share this about St Barth,as i am on the island today.
    Here's an update from the island. As you know,Irma was a fierce hurricane and it did lots of damage in several areas of the island.
    But the island is working hard to get back on its feet,targeting Thanksgiving as step 1,and Christmas for another step forward.
    Island is starting to slowly turn green again...Which will help with the perception of the island.
    I have good news regarding the restaurant scene on the island.Maya's,Tamarin,Bonito are planning to reopen before thanksgiving.Orega and Isola didn't sustain any damage and will reopen normally end of october.Bagatelle is targeting an opening before Christmas.

    Situation is more complicated for the beach restaurants,because of the damages done by the sea..Shellona's building is intact but all the outdoor space is gone and the beach has moved lower.Tom's beach will reopen ..but not sure yet when the kitchen will be fully operational.All the 5 star hotels will remain closed.Flamand hotels will need full reconstruction.
    The restaurants in Saline should also reopen before Christmas.



    The Ti Saint Barth is also mainly intact.So are the bars in town.
    Lots of villas are reopening 1st of november for the season.Hurricane shutters are all down and pools are empty because of aftermath of the hurricane.This is why you don't see updated photos of villas for the moment.It doesn't mean they are badly damaged.
    Some areas were badly hit...but many houses did escape the hurricane.
    People planning holidays in the caribbean during winter 2018 will be fine.Bucket is on,music festival is on.


  5. #35
    steelpe is offline
    SBH Insider Joined: Jul 2010 Posts: 453

    Re: If not St Barth, where?

    Chris, your report is completely different to a few that I have seen who were written by people who live on the island. Here we have villa agencies, tourism agencies and others who are saying everything is fine. Then we have a few people who are saying that everything is not fine as the markets are running out of food and electricity/water is not reliable. If I had to chose one group of people I would side with more I would side with those who live on the island because they are not trying to sell me something.

  6. #36
    chris83 is offline
    SBH Insider Joined: May 2017 Posts: 721

    Re: If not St Barth, where?

    Quote Originally Posted by steelpe View Post
    Chris, your report is completely different to a few that I have seen who were written by people who live on the island. Here we have villa agencies, tourism agencies and others who are saying everything is fine. Then we have a few people who are saying that everything is not fine as the markets are running out of food and electricity/water is not reliable. If I had to chose one group of people I would side with more I would side with those who live on the island because they are not trying to sell me something.
    Well, i am on the island today...
    The island is still a mess...but we are the 25 th of september..19 days after Irma.
    It is clear the 5 star hotels will be closed for a while.
    But the restaurant scene is up to date...I saw Herve from cote Port today...and he has been busy making plans to reopen.He will know next week.And might be able to reopen in 6 weeks.
    I saw Maya at the bar de l'oubli and she is planning to reopen for the season.
    It is clear today "It's not fine".But you can go to AMC and buy a cold bottle of Ruinard or get fresh bread every morning.
    You must keep in mind the size of the island.approx 8 x 4 kilometers for 21 square kilometers.Fixing the grid for 12.000 people is quite different than fixing it in Puerto Rico for 3.5 millions people.
    3 months to Christmas....enough to do a lot of work


    Massive clean up days are planned every week...The 30th of september for the beaches,for example
    AMC in front of the harbor is cleaning up and ready to open.
    Teams of workers are working in luxury shops in front of the harbor to get ready for Christmas,and trying to be ready for Thanksgiving.
    Coming in town this afternoon,two trucks,each with 5 guys,were picking up debris along the road in Saline.
    There's a massive fire day and night next to the airport to burn all the broken trees.
    Everybody is working to be ready.

  7. #37
    amyb is offline
    SBH Insider Joined: Apr 2008 Glen Cove,L. I., NY Posts: 28,232

    Re: If not St Barth, where?

    A big thank you/merci/gracias to all the workers for their long work days and heavy buckets of sweat dripped while making the island whole again.
    Remember Yesterday, Dream About Tomorrow, But Live Today.

  8. #38
    tritter95 is offline
    SBH Member Joined: Jun 2013 NJ Posts: 122

    Re: If not St Barth, where?

    To chime in, we've also spent a week in Mustique (and also at the Firefly!). The beaches were mostly untouched, and we often found ourselves either the only ones or one of only a handful of people on each beach. The Firefly is one of cheapest options, but I think the prices have gone up a bit since we went in 2011. To spend a week on the island, you'll be looking at about $9-10k minimum (between airfare, food and lodging). The villas start at about $6500 for the week (most are higher), but do typically include some amount of staff (cook, gardener and housekeeper). The Firefly was one of only two hotels on the island. It's actually a B&B with only 5 (as of 2011) rooms. The prices per night I think are up in the $1000 per night range now (were about $700). The vibe of the island is very upscale, but also very laid back. We haven't been back yet, but do plan to at some point. I still prefer St. Barth though. It's a bit too quiet on Mustique.

    We're booked for St. Barth for late December this year, and don't intend to change our plans. As long as our villa is ok (getting confirmation soon), and we can get there, we'll be there.

  9. #39
    elgreaux is offline
    SBH Insider Joined: May 2003 Saint Barth Posts: 11,296

    Re: If not St Barth, where?

    so far there are water restrictions and villas cannot refill their pools, hard to tell how long that might last, so some pools might be empty for a while....

  10. #40
    KPJ72 is offline
    SBH Member Joined: Jun 2016 Posts: 20

    Re: If not St Barth, where?

    With a broken heart, and on the advice of our villa rep, we rebooked our vacation to the Cayman Islands. I know it is nowhere as near as authentic as SBH, but we found a lovely villa directly on the beach, and, most importantly out of the path of most hurricanes.

  11. #41
    amyb is offline
    SBH Insider Joined: Apr 2008 Glen Cove,L. I., NY Posts: 28,232

    Re: If not St Barth, where?

    Water is needed for drinking, bathing, laundry and cleaning. PRIORITIES and common sense and thoughtfulness matter. Pools will get filled in time.
    Remember Yesterday, Dream About Tomorrow, But Live Today.

  12. #42
    elgreaux is offline
    SBH Insider Joined: May 2003 Saint Barth Posts: 11,296

    Re: If not St Barth, where?

    Quote Originally Posted by amyb View Post
    Water is needed for drinking, bathing, laundry and cleaning. PRIORITIES and common sense and thoughtfulness matter. Pools will get filled in time.
    I agree 100%, was just saying that people who go down in November might find a few surprises...

  13. #43
    dadto6 is offline
    SBH Insider Joined: Aug 2013 Northern Virginia Posts: 2,226

    Re: If not St Barth, where?

    Thank you Ellen,
    I do not like surprises. Your comments are very welcomed.
    I send an email to my villa owner today to inquire about status of repairs prior to our arrival in 4-weeks. As we love to lay out by the pool, soaking up the sun and admiring the vistas. If a pool with brown water or no water at all, not good. If pool deck surround is missing, not good. If fencing is still down and voids privacy from adjoining neighbors, not good. Just need the truth, communication is key to making intelligent and informed decisions...

  14. #44

    Re: If not St Barth, where?

    "If fencing is still down and voids privacy from adjoining neighbors, not good"

    I think that privacy will be one of the little surprises during the next couple of months. With all the vegetation stripped bare, you can suddenly see neighboring houses that you did not even know were there. Lasts years secluded sanctuary of a villa is suddenly exposed for all to see. Given time, the plants & trees will regrow but this will take a few months.

  15. #45
    andynap is offline
    SBH Insider Joined: Oct 2002 Philadelphia Posts: 45,021

    Re: If not St Barth, where?

    Quote Originally Posted by survivior View Post
    "If fencing is still down and voids privacy from adjoining neighbors, not good"

    I think that privacy will be one of the little surprises during the next couple of months. .....""...".......................Given time, the plants & trees will regrow but this will take a few months.
    maybe a few years?..


    Andy

  16. #46
    chris83 is offline
    SBH Insider Joined: May 2017 Posts: 721

    Re: If not St Barth, where?

    SAUR water plant is intact ..but water production is disconnected when a tropical storm or a hurricane is approaching.(as they suck sea water..they need it clean)
    Pools are empty today for 3 reasons:clean up (lots of debris landed in pools).Avoid mosquitos.EDF electricity is not stable enough and may damage the pumps.
    This is why you don't see updated photos of villas .Pools are empty.Hurricane shutters are down as safety (or slightly damaged) and gardens have been hit hard.
    To think you won't have a full pool in your rental in november or december is just ludicrous.

    Hurricane season isn't over....and tourists are not arriving before Thanksgiving...IN 60 DAYS.(it takes 1-2 days to fill a pool in SBH)
    And if you think supermarkets don't sell (today) water for drinking....well..not much to say.
    Approx 25 % of the villas on the island have no damage (or slight).Wimco is about to come out with a list of 175 villas ready for rental in november.In Saint jean,in Pointe Milou,in Gustavia,in Corossol...everywhere.
    Bucket is a go,Cata cup is a go.Music festival is a go.
    The island is far from dead.
    The island is 21 sq km2.It doesn't take long or hundreds of people to make an impact.Sunday,EDF was working all over the island to bring electricity and this morning,they were already busy putting the cables up on the poles.

  17. #47
    JimD is offline
    SBH Insider Joined: May 2004 St Barts of Course Posts: 1,577

    Re: If not St Barth, where?

    We have bookings holding for the holidays and new requests coming in...

  18. #48
    Izzy is offline
    SBH Insider Joined: Mar 2016 Posts: 872

    Re: If not St Barth, where?

    Quote Originally Posted by chris83 View Post
    Hurricane season isn't over....and tourists are not arriving before Thanksgiving...IN 60 DAYS.
    60 days is, for many, a point at which full payment is due and the percent that is nonrefundable goes up significantly... There are many issues beyond when villas are declared "ready" and the island declared "open for business" that puts those for whom this day approaches in a difficult position... This is one time that I do not envy those whose trip to St Barth is close at hand... I do not know what I would do...

  19. #49
    Bart -my real name- is offline
    SBH Insider Joined: Nov 2009 Alexandria, VA Posts: 5,427

    Re: If not St Barth, where?

    Thanks to all for the great info!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Août View Post
    If you have money to burn...
    Petit St Vincent...simply beautiful, very, very private and...expensive!
    Thanks, but if I can't do SBH, then I'm looking for something more budget friendly, not less!

    That will probably eliminate Mustique as well. Sad face. [Edit: change "probably" to "definitely". I just checked the prices for lodging! ]


    Quote Originally Posted by chris83 View Post
    Guadeloupe Basse terre has been badly hit by Maria..:les saintes also...That is clearly not an option today.
    Thanks Chris. I really liked the sound of Guadeloupe and the nearby islands, but was having trouble getting any info on the state of things there. Nearly all the articles I found were from a week ago and had very little detail other than, "Maria barrels toward Guadeloupe" or something like that. I can't find any current information on what's happening there now, or how bad the damage was. Is it possible that the damage was minor (by Irma/Maria standards)?



    Does anyone have any info on Martinique? The 2017 Fodor's Guide to the Caribbean calls it "Paris in the tropics". They also call it one of the most enchanting destinations in the western hemisphere and rave about the great french food. Yes it has 400,000 inhabitants but 1/4 of them live in Fort-de-France, so I'm hoping that when you get outside of the city, things mellow out a bit.

    Sitting here on my couch with the travel guide in hand, Martinique sounds great. What am I missing?

  20. #50
    chris83 is offline
    SBH Insider Joined: May 2017 Posts: 721

    Re: If not St Barth, where?

    Quote Originally Posted by Izzy View Post
    60 days is, for many, a point at which full payment is due and the percent that is nonrefundable goes up significantly... There are many issues beyond when villas are declared "ready" and the island declared "open for business" that puts those for whom this day approaches in a difficult position... This is one time that I do not envy those whose trip to St Barth is close at hand... I do not know what I would do...
    Hello Izzy
    To put things into perspective,Sibarth rental,Icietla,terre de St Barth and others all had their offices badly damaged.No one is going to ask you for full payment upfront today.You can ask for more clarity before deciding..Few villas have updated photos as pools are empty and gardens need a few weeks to turn green again.
    The restaurant/bar list is up to date at least.All food shops operate normally.The beaches are still intact (just a few meters lower).
    SXM airport will probably reopen in october.
    Don't stress....Villa owners and agencies are too happy to see visitors.Problem might be to find a nice villa to rent in november as many suffered enough damage to require a few weeks of work.
    Weather isn't stable yet and more tropical storms are expected.People are extra cautious.
    You will get clarity mid october .

  21. #51
    steelpe is offline
    SBH Insider Joined: Jul 2010 Posts: 453

    Re: If not St Barth, where?

    With a heavy heart today we reached out to our villa agency and asked to postpone our trip to 2019. Between the flight cancellations and uncertainty of how much the island would have recovered by the time we arrived (really a 50/50 split between the two) there were just too many questions. We were also not interested in "being in the way" of the recovery too. We are now going to take a few weeks to decide where we go from here.... but will be back in 2019.

    Thank you to those of you who have posted daily about how the island has been doing. I have looked at every post and update while trying to decide what to do.

  22. #52
    MIke R is offline
    SBH Insider Joined: May 2003 Stinson Lake - New Hampshire & Provincetown - Cape Cod Posts: 51,935

    Re: If not St Barth, where?

    I was coming to SBH in November and cancelled.....they need to take care of themselves first...not needy tourists...I was also booked in Anagada for the spring and cancelled ...it's a wasteland ....so I then booked Vieques and then along came Maria and made it a wasteland as well so I cancelled .....

    I ve been to many of the islands mentioned in this thread ......wouldn't go back to most but particularly Martinique and St Lucia.....a LOT of crime .....Bequia I loved but it's really hard to get too......Grand Cayman is a sell out but Cayman Brac is cool....Isle de Mujeres is very cool and not at all typical Mexican resort

    Belieze is beautiful and cheap

    one place that wasnt mentioned was Trindad ....really cool place.....so is Barbados

    We re just going to lay low with the Caribbean for a while and do Florida Panhandle ( Rosemary Beach ) in the spring .....no big deal ..

    I used to go to Sicily every year to see family pre 9/11 and stopped after 9/11 and this might be a good time to re visit because that island blows away every single Caribbean island as far as I m concerned


    FWIW none of the actual reports I get from people on a few islands who don't have huge loss of cash risk exposure is completely different from reports coming from people and organizations who are out on a financial limb .....surprise surprise

    happy hunting ....great big wide world out there and no place is be all end all
    "When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace" Jimi Hendrix

  23. #53
    davesmom is offline
    SBH Insider Joined: Apr 2004 Posts: 1,898

    Re: If not St Barth, where?

    Quote Originally Posted by SB HONEY View Post
    Linda, the Amalfi coast is wonderful, try and make dinner reservations at Le Sirenuse in Positano. It's a most beautiful and memorable setting. The dinning room is only lit by candle light. They light 436 tea lights and it takes one man over an hour to light them all. For us it's one of our most cherished travel memories.
    Also regarding an above mention of Virgin Gorda and the recent hurricanes. It suffered serve damage from Irma and Maria. We had planned a week in St Barth in Nov/Dec followed by sailing 10 days in the BVI. Have canceled both legs of the trip. Chartered boat destroyed and all the places that made us love sailing there no longer exist. Have rebooked St. Barth for April 2018, but unsure when we'll be able to return to the BVI waters....we will sail there again but not for a year or so. So sad for the islands and all the people who have lost homes and jobs.
    We were hoping to go back to SBH next year, too. We stay at the Guanahani. But we have been traveling to other places as well, and our other "home away from home" is Le Sirenuse in Positano. I can't recommend enough this perfect little hotel and all of the activities in the area including Capri. It is overly crowded and expensive in July, August, and September, which is when we usually go, but you will never be sorry taking a trip to the Amalfi coast. A couple of other places we just traveled to on a long Mediterranean trip were Sardinia and Mallorca. We only had the day on Sardinia but we want to go back..very sweet island with fabulous, inexpensive wine, and wonderful residents, little restaurants, lovely winding roads, beautiful beaches, incredible historical things to see. Mallorca was fun and interesting as we visited the artists in the mountain towns. This is just to say that for us, there is nowhere like SBH but there are many places that can give you enormous amounts of pleasure of great food, bakeries, small villages, interesting historical dialects, beaches, etc. (Actually for me, the funniest part of the trip was how Davesdad kept "comparing" each place we went to SBH...and I was the one who was always pushing to go back to SBH every time! It made me so happy to know that he loves SBH as much as I do.) SBH will be back, I am confident, and when it is ready for us, we will be, too. Happy travels in the interlude. (Also, I have spent a number of trips on many other Caribbean islands starting in 1979, and having been to quite a number of the places you mention (St. Lucia, for instance), I can honestly say that the rise in crime in many of these islands has made me hesitate to return. Turks has become dangerous with tourist murders recently. In the past, I have spent a fair amount of time in Guadeloupe and Martinique (vacation and dialectology research), but it has been at least 15 years since, and between 1980 and the 1990s, I noted a very positive change toward tourists in the late 90s for what it is worth. That being said, it is very helpful to speak French and a little créole there, but the food is amazing. Wherever you go, you will learn something, try something new, and gain an appreciation for wonderful things in the world. It makes coming back to SBH only sweeter..
    Strangers are friends you haven't met yet.

  24. #54
    KevinS is offline
    Senior Insider Joined: Jul 2003 Posts: 21,437

    Re: If not St Barth, where?

    DM, you'll find us there if you and DD revisit SBH in the last half of November or the last half of April. Come on by for un coupe. We'll be there.

    For this year, I have alternatives, but I haven't completely given up on SBH yet.

  25. #55
    davesmom is offline
    SBH Insider Joined: Apr 2004 Posts: 1,898

    Re: If not St Barth, where?

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinS View Post
    DM, you'll find us there if you and DD revisit SBH in the last half of November or the last half of April. Come on by for un coupe. We'll be there.

    For this year, I have alternatives, but I haven't completely given up on SBH yet.
    We are with you, Kevin! We have not given up our dreams to come back and we usually come at your time in April, so if we are there, we totally owe you a Veuve party! (Rosé oblige..!) We think of you every time we drink a rosé wine somewhere in the world, as you and your very knowledgeable colleagues on this blog have really taught us quite a bit. First things first with putting the lives of this beautiful island back together, the repairs to be made. Those of us, new and old, who are passionate visitors, feel as though that even a terrible event can not destroy what is truly unique to SBH. There are beautiful palm trees and beaches around the world, nightclubs, villas, and 5 star resorts, but in SBH it is the essence of the people and the pleasure of the simple high quality of French influenced life that so many have beautifully expressed in their posts, which make this island irreplaceable in the Pantheon of great islands. No one can destroy the connections to the people you meet, past, present and future, who give the gift of friendship when you come. Hector will have his successors, but this little palm will always belong to the island, and has taken its place in SBH history. Le Select isn't going anywhere. We lost Andy but gained Hafida. Hopefully, we haven't lost Manu and Missy's beloved profiteroles and Davesdad's Thursday mussels! Each member of this blog has his/her personal list, but all feel as though it is the "person" in personal in SBH, who will always come first, before the rest. Gift giving goes both ways and the gift of our individual memories given to us by SBH should be reciprocated by what this island needs from us to make it whole again. Let us know, SBH. The people on this blog will help to make it happen.
    Strangers are friends you haven't met yet.

  26. #56
    amyb is offline
    SBH Insider Joined: Apr 2008 Glen Cove,L. I., NY Posts: 28,232

    Re: If not St Barth, where?

    Dreamt posting Davesmom. You too have NAILED it.

    The locals and other visitors make this island unique. I have made some strong friendships with folks met on SBH. TRAVEL IS WONDERFUL. It is people that make it so.
    Remember Yesterday, Dream About Tomorrow, But Live Today.

  27. #57
    Trinigerl is offline
    SBH Member Joined: Apr 2007 Trinidad/Houston Posts: 121

    Re: If not St Barth, where?

    We also cancelled our December 22- Jan 6th and rebooked to Barbados. It took us several calls to AA and many hours on the phone but we finally got our tickets last night. Our villa owner in St Barth told us that the Villa was ok, as of now she has no power and Wi-Fi. Turbe had a car for us, but with the uncertainty of St Maarten airport and getting to St Barth we made our decision.

    I grew up in Trinidad and remember the days when we had no power/water after a storm or heavy rains. We would all be up early and go to bed early it was the way of life like the people of St barths and many of the islands today, also I remember what it was like to have to take your shower with one bucket of water that was your limit.

    When I go home to Trinidad we are always concerned that the power would go, it is the way of life on the island at least now my parents like most of the ppl in Trinidad have 5 water tanks so we always have water.

    So I do feel for the ppl what they are going thru and a lot of them don’t have homes to live in, the nights are hot with no fan or AC, mosquitos I am sure are horrible. I think that we would only be a burden to them and the limited supply that they have and that is not the vacation that I want to have either.

  28. #58
    belinda is offline
    SBH Member Joined: Jul 2017 U.K. & USA Posts: 150

    Re: If not St Barth, where?

    I'm in for the Veuve party. ������ I think anyone visitor or resident who were present when Irma hit will never forget the night and morning and days after. It will be one of the memories that stay with you for the rest of your life. Hasn't in anyway put us of coming to the island again. Absolutely can't wait to come back... Were grounded for now though as our first grandchild is due anytime... Lol

  29. #59
    amyb is offline
    SBH Insider Joined: Apr 2008 Glen Cove,L. I., NY Posts: 28,232

    Re: If not St Barth, where?

    Congrats on pending grandparenthood, Belinda. One of the best things that ever happened to me.
    Remember Yesterday, Dream About Tomorrow, But Live Today.

  30. #60
    Bart -my real name- is offline
    SBH Insider Joined: Nov 2009 Alexandria, VA Posts: 5,427

    Re: If not St Barth, where?

    So since we booked our flights to SXM using milage, we were not limited to the 350 mile radius for changing flights. I was zeroing in on St. Vincent and the Grenadines, but they didn't have any flights on our outbound travel day (Thursday), so we're going to going from DC to Barbados with the goal of Bequia as the main destination.

    So once again, I have to turn to the wisdom of the forum.

    Is it worth spending a day or two in Barbados on either end (or both ends) of the trip? Or is it better to get to Bequia as soon as possible? And stay there as long as possible.

    Is Bequia going to be enough to cover for a week or should we look into day trips to Mustique or Canoun? Mind you, we're not looking activities other than beach, books, food, repeat. (Maybe a snorkeling trip since it seems to be better there than in SBH)

    Thanks!

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