A nuance in an old discussion
- Thread starter cec1
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Of course you can show up in any restaurant in SBH with flip flops and shorts, and nobody will say anything. Let alone, you'll be offered a table. But, being dressed (with long pants) is a sign of respect towards yourself, you party, the other guests of the restaurants and the staff. Simple.
Edited by Tim.
Islander . . . I'm writing to say that I acknowledge your point of view, shared by numerous others, that ". . . being dressed (with long pants) is a sign of respect towards yourself, you[r] party, the other guests of the restaurants and the staff." I'm confident, however, that my friends who own restaurants on SBH and who work in them do not find any disrespect by me when I come to dinner in shorts and flip-flops. I'm well-dressed (albeit, in shorts) . . . I am polite, gracious of friendship, service, and kind attention, appreciative of food and other aspects of a pleasant evening, not loud, find enjoyment in the company of owners, staff, and other guests (which is, I like to think, mutual), and generally am considered to be a friend and welcome guest who happens to prefer shorts to long pants.
There may be perceived practical reasons for long pants . . . as Andy has suggested (for example, protection from mosquitoes). Certainly some thing that long pants are appropriate evening restaurant attire. On the other hand, though I admittedly am not the best dressed person "in the house" wherever I go, my style is neither unattractive nor an embarrassment to me nor to friends, restaurant owners, and/or staff of the restaurants where I eat on SBH.
So, rather than causing the issue to be personalized in terms of respect (or lack thereof), I believe that it's a subject of personal preference, without being discourteous or rude.
There may be perceived practical reasons for long pants . . . as Andy has suggested (for example, protection from mosquitoes). Certainly some thing that long pants are appropriate evening restaurant attire. On the other hand, though I admittedly am not the best dressed person "in the house" wherever I go, my style is neither unattractive nor an embarrassment to me nor to friends, restaurant owners, and/or staff of the restaurants where I eat on SBH.
So, rather than causing the issue to be personalized in terms of respect (or lack thereof), I believe that it's a subject of personal preference, without being discourteous or rude.
As a long time reader of the Forum and (very) occasional poster, I was impressed by this thread, in that it illustrates the reason why I (and I suspect others) prefer to remain casual readers and not contributers.
Although I've been on the island over 20 times (frankly, I've lost count) and find many Forum topics comment-worthy, I contribute only occasionally. The reason for my reluctance is embodied in the current thread. Apparently, we've somehow lost the ability to disagree without interpreting the disagreements as personal affronts. Too often, what start out as constructive dialogs on restaurants, wardrobe choices, travel logistics (you name it) degenerate into rudeness and personal affrontery. Why is it we can't have stimulating discussions in which intelligent people disagree, without the conversations degenerating into (forgive me) p--ssing contests? Is it the relative anonymity afforded by the Internet, or (even worse) are we simply no longer able to tolerate those with whom we disagree? (And yes, I am also referring to more global issues--at least in my native U.S.).
So...Although we can't necessarily fix society at large, perhaps this Forum would encourage more participation (i.e., more posters) if it was a little more tolerant of dissenting opinions and if we could be a little kinder to each other. After all, intelligent people can disagree constructively. That's OK--It's one of the things that make life (and on-line forums) more interesting. And we do all agree on one important thing--We all LOVE St Barth.
Sorry for the sermonet, but the Forum members I've met down through the years all seem like great people. Perhaps we could be a little kinder to one another.
Cheers from Bequia (which you all would like, BTW).
--EGW.
Although I've been on the island over 20 times (frankly, I've lost count) and find many Forum topics comment-worthy, I contribute only occasionally. The reason for my reluctance is embodied in the current thread. Apparently, we've somehow lost the ability to disagree without interpreting the disagreements as personal affronts. Too often, what start out as constructive dialogs on restaurants, wardrobe choices, travel logistics (you name it) degenerate into rudeness and personal affrontery. Why is it we can't have stimulating discussions in which intelligent people disagree, without the conversations degenerating into (forgive me) p--ssing contests? Is it the relative anonymity afforded by the Internet, or (even worse) are we simply no longer able to tolerate those with whom we disagree? (And yes, I am also referring to more global issues--at least in my native U.S.).
So...Although we can't necessarily fix society at large, perhaps this Forum would encourage more participation (i.e., more posters) if it was a little more tolerant of dissenting opinions and if we could be a little kinder to each other. After all, intelligent people can disagree constructively. That's OK--It's one of the things that make life (and on-line forums) more interesting. And we do all agree on one important thing--We all LOVE St Barth.
Sorry for the sermonet, but the Forum members I've met down through the years all seem like great people. Perhaps we could be a little kinder to one another.
Cheers from Bequia (which you all would like, BTW).
--EGW.
GramChop
Senior Insider
I've never thought twice about it, quite frankly. I can't say I've really ever noticed if gentlemen are in long pants or shorts. From the perspective of the dining table, all I see are smiles, raised glasses, rolling eyes (after the first bite of whatever one is having or sharing) and intent focus on whomever has the floor at the moment. So, it truly matters not, to me, if one is wearing shorts or long pants.
EGW...I concur!
EGW...I concur!
MIke R
Senior Insider
EGW.....one of the primary reasons these discussions have often eroded into something unsavory in here is the moderator would first take sides and then poke and take shots at the unfortunate poster who was on the wrong side of the equation, which would then of course escalate the ...shall we say..,energy of the discussion...LOL.....as opposed to what Tim did which was simply to remove the offensive comments of the poster and more importantly, stay neutral and out of the mix .....I applaud that type of managing a debate/discussion ....it's how it should be and how it is for the vast majority of discussion/debate forums out there , both in real time and virtual time
sadly the internet has created a lot of "keyboard Cowboys" who, behind the safety net of cyberspace speak in a manner they would never dare do if the person was in the same room......it's all false bravado and easy to see right through ....but admittedly harder to ignore at times .....
sadly the internet has created a lot of "keyboard Cowboys" who, behind the safety net of cyberspace speak in a manner they would never dare do if the person was in the same room......it's all false bravado and easy to see right through ....but admittedly harder to ignore at times .....
MIke R
Senior Insider
My wife has to wake up 6 days a week and make herself look nice for the public as she is the front person in our upscale boutique ....so when we head down island she wants to let her hair down and not have to dress up at all for a week .. and I don't blame her one bit .....and for me I would not want to be caught alive, dead, or any point in between in the white pants posted above...that is absolutely NOT who I am by any stretch .... but I certainly do support anyone's desire to sport that look ....wear it and enjoy !
andynap
Senior Insider
Is it still there??
GramChop
Senior Insider
Is that supposed to be me? :questionmark:
+1
A few days ago, while on the island, I met with a good friend of mine (a 20 years+ full time resident) who was personally targeted by a 50K+ posts member (I will try to avoid pointing fingers this time). The discussion was about mooring lines for boats in Gustavia harbor and the techniques used in Gustavia. As a matter of fact my friend knows a great deal about the topic (much more than anybody here on the forum), due to his work and experience. But for a very strange reason, although he had a point, the discussion turned into a direct and personal attack against him. He felt offended and decided not to post any more, in the same manner than other members became reluctant to post for the reasons expressed above by EGW.
In my opinion (and for the record, this is ONLY my own opinion), we should remove these ridiculous titles. Why someone defined as a "SBH -Apprentice" would know less than a "SBH-guru" when in fact it is often quite the opposite? As clearly demonstrated in the above example, a SBH Apprentice may be living on the island for 20 years and a SBH-Guru visit the island one week every 3 years. Same goes for the amount of posts. What should really matters is the insight knowledge of each member and the value of the information provided. It is all about exchange and respect and.... attitude.
A last word. Often topics are about cultural aspects of the life in SBH. And although we have a few US citizens living on the island who know a great deal about the SBH culture, the "local" or the "French" way of doing things is sometimes very different than the one found in North America or other parts of the world. Instead of trying to make a point accros based on what's good at home, perhaps certain members on here (again no finger pointing) should try to really understand what these differences are and respect them when visiting the island. Very few "real French" are members of this forum (probably a language thing), but when they post (and I am not talking about myself here), please try to catch the real meaning of the message.
The topic discussed on this thread is one of them (clothing / dressing when going to restaurants). The hot "tipping" discussion topic is another one. There are many more examples. One way to understand the local / French culture is to learn the language (at least a few words), as that's a very good way to catch the meanings.... Cassidain demontrates this almost on a daily basis, as many others.
Just a thought.
Glamma Dre
SBH Member
I have to agree with Missy. I never noticed what anyone was wearing when we were at dinner. I just enjoyed the conversations and the food, and quite a few laughs.
pascaleschmidt
Senior Insider
Islander ... bien dis mais tu sais faut pas trop les prendre au sérieux.... quand quelqu'un ici m'a dit que je ne représentais pas la culture française j'ai compris avec qui j'avais a faire....
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