SXM-PHL A320 Too Heavy!

Getting home from SBH yesterday was interesting. The AA flight from SXM to PHL, supposed to be direct, had to stop in San Juan because the plane couldn't carry enough fuel for the trip. According to the captain, the fully loaded plane was too heavy to clear the mountains at the end of the SXM runway, so less fuel was carried to lighten the plane making the stop in San Juan necessary for re-fueling. This combined with a one hour wait on the runway at SXM prior to take off meant that the flight arrived two hours late into PHL. It's always interesting getting home through SXM.

You guys ate too much on vacation-

Fuel might have been a lot cheaper in San Juan. Important thing is you are home safely.

Jim Kelly-Evans said:

Getting home from SBH yesterday was interesting. The AA flight from SXM to PHL, supposed to be direct, had to stop in San Juan because the plane couldn't carry enough fuel for the trip. According to the captain, the fully loaded plane was too heavy to clear the mountains at the end of the SXM runway, so less fuel was carried to lighten the plane making the stop in San Juan necessary for re-fueling. This combined with a one hour wait on the runway at SXM prior to take off meant that the flight arrived two hours late into PHL. It's always interesting getting home through SXM.

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if american airlines put a plane in st martin that was due for a long haul and could not carry sufficient fuel because of weight ( which had to be because of added frieght loaded) they are way behind the curve on planning and i would be tremendously concerned as to how in the world they could allow that to happen. it just is not what a professional air carrier does!!

Before the merger I always flew 757's to/from SXM. I wonder why the change.

tim said:

Before the merger I always flew 757's to/from SXM. I wonder why the change.

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Not from Philly Tim- A320s mostly. In all the years we have flown to SXM and back there was only 1 time I had a 757 and that was after a hurricane when the flights before were canceled for 2 days.

We're had prior posts about AA flights departing SXM, with unscheduled refueling stops at SJU. I wonder if Amy's thought (cheaper fuel in SJU) could be the answer?

American has been a thorn in our side....our way down here leaving Philadelphia we had to wait 40 minutes for a wedding party....that in addition to decing which is expected, we missed our flight to St. Bart's that afternoon....

Jet A in SJU is 2.16.....in Sxm is 3.69

There are many factors that could have been in play here..I've been retired from AA for over two years as a flight dispatcher that worked the Caribbean flights for 40+ yrs. here are a couple of things that could have possibly caused the problem. Many time the smaller islands have fuel shortages where a carrier is only allowed x amount of gallons a day until the resupply of fuel arrives on the island so a stop in SJU is necessary. Many times when the flights are full they simply weigh to much to take off in the normal direction to the East toward the mountains so we would attempt to make a tailwind take off over the beach but if the tailwind was over 10kts then that wasn't possible as that is the max tailwind allowed so a stop in SJU was required for fuel. The alternative would be to fuel the plane for the nonstop flight to PHL or JFK or MIA and leave passengers or bags behind which is never the first choice. Not making excuses for my former employer just trying to explain what might have caused your flights problem..

No matter the reason, you were fortunate you were not making a connection in Phili. Many other passengers on yr flight were not happy but arrived safely.

Thanks debo . . . great to have such information.

Some may recall periods of low levels of SXM fuel supply from a few New Year's back. Insufficient fuel storage capacity at SXM combined with heavy demand from the seasonal influx of private jets led to many flights making a hop to another island to refuel before heading home.

great to have your knowledgeable input, Debo

jcmc said:

if american airlines put a plane in st martin that was due for a long haul and could not carry sufficient fuel because of weight ( which had to be because of added frieght loaded) they are way behind the curve on planning and i would be tremendously concerned as to how in the world they could allow that to happen. it just is not what a professional air carrier does!!

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SXM PHL is not "long haul". The A320 is perfect for that mission.
Regarding fuel: it might be cheaper in SJU, but that's not the reason for the unscheduled stop (an expensive operation for any airline).


Performance calculations are made by pilots before every take-off. The performances are highly depending on weather conditions.


1. Wind direction
2. Outside Temperature
3. Atmospheric Pressure
4. Wet or dry runway


Planning departments use "average weather conditions" for their calculations and cannot cover every scenario.


I don't know what happened on that day. But all I can say is that in the last days there were strong Northerly winds over the Atlantic. This means headwinds when flying Northbound. The headwinds increase flight time, which in turn means more fuel needed for the flight. It might explain why, with the specifics of SXM (the short runway and the obstacle after departure), the 320 could not carry all the necessary fuel for the flight.


Also, bear in mind that pilots decide on how much fuel to take depending on the weather conditions at destination. If the weather is crap (which might not have been necessarily the case on this one), more fuel is added to the minimum flight plan fuel, so as to cover for any unforeseen circumstances (holdings, diversions, etc...).


It's not always as "black and white" as it might appear, although I understand the frustration that delays can sometimes provoke.

Not to disagree totally with what you say but for US carriers pilots and licensed dispatchers decide on fuel and route of flight..It's not the pilots call alone..we call,it joint responsibility. The performance calculations and fuel loads are planned by the dispatchers long before the pilots show up at the airport. Of course once the Captain arrives and reviews the flight plan those calculations and fuel loads can be altered when he calls his dispatcher and discusses the flight plan. At AA any flight over 3 hrs is considered a long haul flight but you are 100% correct that the A320 is perfectly capable for SXM-PHL flights or that aircraft would never be scheduled on that route. Like you I wasn't there the day all this happened I'm just relaying my years of experience of dispatching large aircraft from small island airports and the challenges that can occur..your points are spot on Islander..I can tell you've been doing your job for a long time...

So I just assumed that rather than take luggage (which most airlines are now charging for), they would rather carry freight at a higher fee. Is that correct? If it is correct, why would an airline consider not taking people and luggage, and kicking off some cargo if a plane was overweight? Or does that question answered itself if the cargo provides more income?

When I was still working we always removed freight before passengers and bags...always..not sure what the AA policy is now on that subject.

debo said:

When I was still working we always removed freight before passengers and bags...always..not sure what the AA policy is now on that subject.

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Is this really AA or USAIR in another's clothing???

From my I'm told by friends still working in dispatch its AA in disguise Andy...US Air management adding more and more of the old US Air practices..I'm glad I retired when I did!!