September 19, 2008Private Ownership of Fisheries May Shore Up StocksBy CORNELIA DEANGiving people ownership rights in marine fisheries
- Thread starter JoshA
- Start date
MIke R
Senior Insider
Re: Privatizing fisheries
yeah this idea has been kicked around for a few years now.....it has its merits..but there are also some pitfalls.....
first of all scientists should NOT determine catch limits.....there is a scientist sitting a few feet from me now who has dedicated a good portion of her young life to studying the oceans and fish....she has an undergraduate degree in marine biology and a graduate degree in zoology...she has studied fish stocks at University of Rhode Island as well as whales in Cape Cod, Baja and the Silver Banks off of the Dominican Republic...and she would be the FIRST to tell you that scientists dont know much about predicting stock totals and setting catch limits and that fishermen know far more about that sort of thing than they do....and this sentiment is echoed by many other scientists I have spoken to......
case in point.....in 1991 scientists from New Enland Aquarium. Center of Coastal Studies and National Marine Fisheries tried to close the bluefin tuna fisheries entirely, saying stocks were dangerously low...we were seeing more bluefin tuna than ever that year so we were outraged....our spotter plane found a school of fish in Nantucket Sound the size of which has never been seen prior or after...he photographed them...this school was miles and miles by miles and miles...we went to the open to the public meeting the National Marine Fisheries had and we blew up the photograph and asked them to evaluate the photograph in terms of fish stocks.....they thought the photograph was taken years ago and said it was a photograph which indicated a very healthy population of fish.....when we told them the photograph was taken THAT WEEK, their jaws dropped....they didn't know what to say...we than asked them why they continue to make judgement calls which are radically impacting peoples lives when they in fact ..have no clue what they are doing.....upon further questioning we discovered that better than half the scientists in the room that night havent been out in the ocean in over a year!!!!
so the minute they minimize scientists roles in policy making they will double their credibility
the problem is fish finding equipment, like navigational equipment, have come so far, that any idiot with a boat can potentially catch fish on any given day.....the equipment has gotten too efficient....the old saying that I heard as a kid working on the boats i.e. 10% of the fishermen catch 90% of the fish, is no longer true......but even with that....time and regulations are continuing to cull out the weak and the guys who can catch no matter what will survive...there used to be 20 of us commercially bluefin tuna fishing out of P Town...it has since been culled down to about half of that...same with striped bass fishing and the same with codfishing....
let the fishermen continue to cull each other out...they will....limit or stop new permits....keep up the Fed buyout program so fishermen who arent making it have an option.....increase the minimum mesh size on trawl and seine nets.....keep strict minimun size limits on all species....stop polluting our waters, particularly nitrate pollution and we will be fine.....just wont happen overnight
there aren't many new fishermen entering the business....this will take care of itself if its allowed to...without privatizing it.....as was said...there already is informal privatization going on and has been for years and years.....guys have their "grounds" staked out, most respect that, and God forbid someone else encroaches on it....we take care of that business on our own and without the aid of police or lawyers thank you very much
yeah this idea has been kicked around for a few years now.....it has its merits..but there are also some pitfalls.....
first of all scientists should NOT determine catch limits.....there is a scientist sitting a few feet from me now who has dedicated a good portion of her young life to studying the oceans and fish....she has an undergraduate degree in marine biology and a graduate degree in zoology...she has studied fish stocks at University of Rhode Island as well as whales in Cape Cod, Baja and the Silver Banks off of the Dominican Republic...and she would be the FIRST to tell you that scientists dont know much about predicting stock totals and setting catch limits and that fishermen know far more about that sort of thing than they do....and this sentiment is echoed by many other scientists I have spoken to......
case in point.....in 1991 scientists from New Enland Aquarium. Center of Coastal Studies and National Marine Fisheries tried to close the bluefin tuna fisheries entirely, saying stocks were dangerously low...we were seeing more bluefin tuna than ever that year so we were outraged....our spotter plane found a school of fish in Nantucket Sound the size of which has never been seen prior or after...he photographed them...this school was miles and miles by miles and miles...we went to the open to the public meeting the National Marine Fisheries had and we blew up the photograph and asked them to evaluate the photograph in terms of fish stocks.....they thought the photograph was taken years ago and said it was a photograph which indicated a very healthy population of fish.....when we told them the photograph was taken THAT WEEK, their jaws dropped....they didn't know what to say...we than asked them why they continue to make judgement calls which are radically impacting peoples lives when they in fact ..have no clue what they are doing.....upon further questioning we discovered that better than half the scientists in the room that night havent been out in the ocean in over a year!!!!
so the minute they minimize scientists roles in policy making they will double their credibility
the problem is fish finding equipment, like navigational equipment, have come so far, that any idiot with a boat can potentially catch fish on any given day.....the equipment has gotten too efficient....the old saying that I heard as a kid working on the boats i.e. 10% of the fishermen catch 90% of the fish, is no longer true......but even with that....time and regulations are continuing to cull out the weak and the guys who can catch no matter what will survive...there used to be 20 of us commercially bluefin tuna fishing out of P Town...it has since been culled down to about half of that...same with striped bass fishing and the same with codfishing....
let the fishermen continue to cull each other out...they will....limit or stop new permits....keep up the Fed buyout program so fishermen who arent making it have an option.....increase the minimum mesh size on trawl and seine nets.....keep strict minimun size limits on all species....stop polluting our waters, particularly nitrate pollution and we will be fine.....just wont happen overnight
there aren't many new fishermen entering the business....this will take care of itself if its allowed to...without privatizing it.....as was said...there already is informal privatization going on and has been for years and years.....guys have their "grounds" staked out, most respect that, and God forbid someone else encroaches on it....we take care of that business on our own and without the aid of police or lawyers thank you very much
Re: Privatizing fisheries
I think you may be seeing the end of fishing in the wild in the next decade or two, Miker. Humans used to be hunter-gatherers but, as population grew, we got essentially all our crops and meat from farming because hunting game and gathering wild plants wasn't sufficient to feed us all. Farming is more efficient and much easier, allowing us to live in settlements and cities. Fishing is the only "hunting" of any substantial size and that's changing. Two decades ago there was no farmed salmon and who heard of Tilapia. Two decades from now, I'll bet most, if not all, our fish will be farmed.
I think you may be seeing the end of fishing in the wild in the next decade or two, Miker. Humans used to be hunter-gatherers but, as population grew, we got essentially all our crops and meat from farming because hunting game and gathering wild plants wasn't sufficient to feed us all. Farming is more efficient and much easier, allowing us to live in settlements and cities. Fishing is the only "hunting" of any substantial size and that's changing. Two decades ago there was no farmed salmon and who heard of Tilapia. Two decades from now, I'll bet most, if not all, our fish will be farmed.
Re: Privatizing fisheries
I guess you only eat salmon a few weeks of the year ;-)
I tend to buy fish at Wegman's and the prices of salmon, especially, vary widely. When the Copper River runs are in, they fetch about $25/lb (similar to other wild species like Halibut) whereas farmed salmon runs under $10.
I guess you only eat salmon a few weeks of the year ;-)
I tend to buy fish at Wegman's and the prices of salmon, especially, vary widely. When the Copper River runs are in, they fetch about $25/lb (similar to other wild species like Halibut) whereas farmed salmon runs under $10.
Re: Privatizing fisheries
Sort of. I ENJOY salmon only a few weeks a year. I do buy the Irish Organic, but the prep is different. With the Copper River, I do almost nothing -- maybe a bit of lemon and a few capers, and cooked barely at all. With the Irish Organic, I'm more likely to add a lot of butter to the lemon and caper sauce or in the alternative, I also make a honey-mustard sauce.
I've seen "Coho" salmon recently (I'm not sure if it is "Alaska Coho" or just "Coho.") It was going for about $14 per pound. Anybody know anything about this stuff?
By the way -- Copper River was barely available at all this year, and when it was, the price was over $30 per pound.
Sort of. I ENJOY salmon only a few weeks a year. I do buy the Irish Organic, but the prep is different. With the Copper River, I do almost nothing -- maybe a bit of lemon and a few capers, and cooked barely at all. With the Irish Organic, I'm more likely to add a lot of butter to the lemon and caper sauce or in the alternative, I also make a honey-mustard sauce.
I've seen "Coho" salmon recently (I'm not sure if it is "Alaska Coho" or just "Coho.") It was going for about $14 per pound. Anybody know anything about this stuff?
By the way -- Copper River was barely available at all this year, and when it was, the price was over $30 per pound.
MIke R
Senior Insider
Re: Privatizing fisheries
fortunately there are plenty of salmon in our lakes here and when I feel in the mood, I simply go out and catch one....the salmon which come out of our cold water glacial lakes are to die for....when I do have to buy in the store I only buy wild Alaskan Sockeye.....I also do my own smoking using applewood and maple wood which really imparts a nice flavor to the fish
I will not buy or consume anything farm raised ...for one it mostly tastes like s**t, and for two its a betrayal to the guys and gals who are out their trying to make a living at one of the oldest and most noble professions in America
fortunately there are plenty of salmon in our lakes here and when I feel in the mood, I simply go out and catch one....the salmon which come out of our cold water glacial lakes are to die for....when I do have to buy in the store I only buy wild Alaskan Sockeye.....I also do my own smoking using applewood and maple wood which really imparts a nice flavor to the fish
I will not buy or consume anything farm raised ...for one it mostly tastes like s**t, and for two its a betrayal to the guys and gals who are out their trying to make a living at one of the oldest and most noble professions in America
Re: Privatizing fisheries
There's lox and then there's lox.
From here:
Regular: Brined in a solution of water, salt, sometimes sugars and spices (the brine). This is called "wet brining". Then the fish may be cold smoked.
Nova or Nova Scotia lox: Similar to regular lox, but cured with a milder brine. The fish is then cold smoked. The name dates from a time when much of the salmon in New York came from Nova Scotia. Today, however, the name refers to the milder brining, as compared to regular lox, and the fish may come from other ocean areas than Nova Scotia, or even be raised on farms.
Scottish lox: A mixture of salt and sometimes sugars, spices and other flavorings are applied directly to the meat of the fish for a period of time. This is called "dry brining" or "Scottish style". The brine mixture is then rinsed off, and the fish is cold smoked.
Scandinavian lox: The fish is salt cured and cold smoked.
Gravad lox: Also known as Gravad lax or Gravlax, this is a traditional Scandinavian means of preparing lox (salmon). Gravad lox is not smoked, but it can be served in a similar fashion. The salmon is coated with a spice mixture, which often includes dill, sugars, and spices like juniper berry. It is then weighted down to force the moisture from the fish and impart the flavorings. It is often served with a sweet mustard-dill sauce.
BTW, the Yiddish/English term 'lox' comes from Scandinavian languages (lax).
There's lox and then there's lox.
From here:
Regular: Brined in a solution of water, salt, sometimes sugars and spices (the brine). This is called "wet brining". Then the fish may be cold smoked.
Nova or Nova Scotia lox: Similar to regular lox, but cured with a milder brine. The fish is then cold smoked. The name dates from a time when much of the salmon in New York came from Nova Scotia. Today, however, the name refers to the milder brining, as compared to regular lox, and the fish may come from other ocean areas than Nova Scotia, or even be raised on farms.
Scottish lox: A mixture of salt and sometimes sugars, spices and other flavorings are applied directly to the meat of the fish for a period of time. This is called "dry brining" or "Scottish style". The brine mixture is then rinsed off, and the fish is cold smoked.
Scandinavian lox: The fish is salt cured and cold smoked.
Gravad lox: Also known as Gravad lax or Gravlax, this is a traditional Scandinavian means of preparing lox (salmon). Gravad lox is not smoked, but it can be served in a similar fashion. The salmon is coated with a spice mixture, which often includes dill, sugars, and spices like juniper berry. It is then weighted down to force the moisture from the fish and impart the flavorings. It is often served with a sweet mustard-dill sauce.
BTW, the Yiddish/English term 'lox' comes from Scandinavian languages (lax).
