Island Visitor
Senior Insider
Landis is, shall we say, pain grille
B Test Was Positive
- Thread starter Island Visitor
- Start date
Island Visitor
Senior Insider
JEK:
He tested positive after the "miraculous" leg he had in the mountains one day where he came from nowhere to the yellow jersey. Some of the stories I read said that the stuff he took is used for quick recovery. Don't know.
He tested positive after the "miraculous" leg he had in the mountains one day where he came from nowhere to the yellow jersey. Some of the stories I read said that the stuff he took is used for quick recovery. Don't know.
This story doesn't make sense. Is there any drug that would give you enough of an edge when taken overnight? Would Landis resort to such a desperate measure if this were possible? Could someone have doctored the samples maliciously? Landis does not strike me as someone who would knowingly cheat and lie.
Island Visitor
Senior Insider
There are LOTS of drugs that are reputed to help in recovery including testosterone, growth hormone, forms of insulin, etc.
There is nothing Landis could have taken during the midst of this race that would have made him "faster". Only time on the bike would do that.
HOWEVER, when everyone's legs are dieing, the fellow who can recover quicker has an advantage. What is being alleged is that Landis took the testosterone and therefore recovered his legs more completely overnight than the other fellows. The next day, he shows up with more "fresh" legs than the other guys and could peddle harder.
I am with andynap as to the sniff test here.
If Landis were racing against ME, then making up eight minutes would be no problem. But against the best in the world, coming from nowhere and wiping out eight minutes doesn't happen. It is like overcoming a 45 point deficit in the fourth quarter to come back and beat a super bowl champion. It NEVER happens.
There is nothing Landis could have taken during the midst of this race that would have made him "faster". Only time on the bike would do that.
HOWEVER, when everyone's legs are dieing, the fellow who can recover quicker has an advantage. What is being alleged is that Landis took the testosterone and therefore recovered his legs more completely overnight than the other fellows. The next day, he shows up with more "fresh" legs than the other guys and could peddle harder.
I am with andynap as to the sniff test here.
If Landis were racing against ME, then making up eight minutes would be no problem. But against the best in the world, coming from nowhere and wiping out eight minutes doesn't happen. It is like overcoming a 45 point deficit in the fourth quarter to come back and beat a super bowl champion. It NEVER happens.
Island Visitor
Senior Insider
As andynap knows, Landis has only one possible way to beat this now and that is to challenge the integrity of the sample. This means chain of custody, security and testing methodology.
If Landis can't defeat these tests on those grounds, he is toast. And I can almost guarantee that all the squares have been properly filled. He's done.
(note the smiley you old . . . .)Island Visitor
Senior Insider
Re: I get it . . . I don't get it . . .
Dear Monsieur JEK:
Thank you for your most cordial correspondance in re M. Landis. While I am not expert in matters of sports doping, I have read articles in weightlifting magazines on the subject. At this point, every known chemical except Comet is reputed to improve either muscle mass, fiber-twitch or recovery time. As to how testosterone would improve muscle recovery, I dont recall any specific lectures on the subject. I do find it intriguing that males, as a rule, have much larger muscle masses than females and one could conjecture that testosterone is involved in building and or healing of muscles. Certainly a quick perusal of the internet shows that many believe this to be true.
Please contact me if I can be of any less assistance.
Believe me, I remain,
Faithfully yours,
IV
Dear Monsieur JEK:
Thank you for your most cordial correspondance in re M. Landis. While I am not expert in matters of sports doping, I have read articles in weightlifting magazines on the subject. At this point, every known chemical except Comet is reputed to improve either muscle mass, fiber-twitch or recovery time. As to how testosterone would improve muscle recovery, I dont recall any specific lectures on the subject. I do find it intriguing that males, as a rule, have much larger muscle masses than females and one could conjecture that testosterone is involved in building and or healing of muscles. Certainly a quick perusal of the internet shows that many believe this to be true.
Please contact me if I can be of any less assistance.
Believe me, I remain,
Faithfully yours,
IV
andynap
Senior Insider
Re: Get this
Get this:"
Phil Sheridan | Worse than cheating? The lying that followsBy Phil Sheridan
Inquirer Columnist
Cheating is bad for sports. That's obvious. It's the reason leagues and associations and Olympic committees work so hard to catch dopers. What's not quite so obvious is that lying about cheating is even more damaging than the cheating itself.
And that brings us, unfortunately, to Floyd Landis.
His wide-eyed portrayal of outraged innocence may earn him an Emmy Award, but it probably won't let him hang on to his Tour de France title. When news broke that Landis tested for abnormally high levels of testosterone after his breakthrough Stage 17 performance, the cyclist from Lancaster County pleaded with the public for the benefit of the doubt.
He deserved it. Everyone does. The principle of presumed innocence is vital to the way our democracy operates.
A lot of things have happened since that first shocking news hit. None of it makes Landis look particularly good.
First, he and his team of doctors and lawyers ventured a series of explanations, each sillier than the one before it. Landis' levels were out of whack because of medication he took for a thyroid condition, or the cortisone he received for pain. He drank Jack Daniel's the night before. His levels are naturally high. Or he was dehydrated. Yeah, that's it. Dehydrated.
The second and most devastating development was a New York Times report, since confirmed by Landis' camp, that he tested positive for synthetic testosterone. That blew a hole through every possible excuse.
The science behind the testing is complex. The meaning is breathtakingly simple.
Floyd Landis is busted. Stone-cold, flat-out busted.
Cheating to win the Tour de France is wrong. Lying and lying and lying about it is infinitely worse for all sports and for every athlete.
Use Landis' own logic. He said he knew it would be hard for people to believe him because of all the lying and cheating that had gone on before. Landis acknowledged that he would have trouble believing someone else in the same situation.
Why? Because they all lie when they're caught.
So what did Landis accomplish? Next time an athlete tests positive and looks wide-eyed and innocent into the camera, it is going to be that much more difficult to believe him or her. The list of athletes who were caught, and who toyed with the public's trust by denying they cheated, just got one name longer.
Shot putter C.J. Hunter, the former husband and coach of Marion Jones, said he took legal supplements tainted by illegal compounds. A lie.
Sprinter Kelli White said she took a medication to battle narcolepsy. A lie.
Sprinter Ben Johnson said he must have been the victim of sabotage. A lie.
Rafael Palmeiro scolded Congress and said he'd never used steroids. A lie.
Landis should learn from the mistake of Barry Bonds. If Bonds had come clean when the Bay Area Laboratory Co-Operative story broke two years ago, his name and reputation likely would be saved by now. Instead a grand jury is considering whether he committed perjury.
You can imagine a scenario that explains why Landis might have decided to cheat back on July 20. It doesn't excuse cheating, but it allows for some compassion and understanding.
On July 19, Landis had a terrible day that he admitted made him feel tremendous pressure. He was the leader of the Phonak team, and that one awful day had taken him and his mates out of contention. He felt so bad and so far out of the race that he skipped his usual regimen and drank beer and whiskey with his friends.
Remember, this was probably Landis' one and only chance to win this race. Lance Armstrong had dominated the Tour for the previous seven years, and Landis is planning to have surgery on his arthritic hip. There's no guarantee he'll ever be as strong a rider as he was last month.
So with all that on his shoulders, in that moment of weakness, you can imagine him deciding to cheat just this one time. A little testosterone patch and maybe he could earn back some of the lost time in the mountain passes of Stage 17.
He won the stage.
Afterward, according to the Associated Press, he said, "I didn't expect it to work quite that well."
Those words have a whole different shade of meaning now.
You can understand the pressure to cheat, especially in a sport in which it's reasonable to assume everyone else is doing something to gain an edge. You can understand and even forgive someone who gives in to that temptation.
There is no scenario that excuses the lying and the damage it does to the credibility of every athlete in every sport. They can take Landis' title away, but there is no penalty for his most serious offense."
Get this:"
Phil Sheridan | Worse than cheating? The lying that followsBy Phil Sheridan
Inquirer Columnist
Cheating is bad for sports. That's obvious. It's the reason leagues and associations and Olympic committees work so hard to catch dopers. What's not quite so obvious is that lying about cheating is even more damaging than the cheating itself.
And that brings us, unfortunately, to Floyd Landis.
His wide-eyed portrayal of outraged innocence may earn him an Emmy Award, but it probably won't let him hang on to his Tour de France title. When news broke that Landis tested for abnormally high levels of testosterone after his breakthrough Stage 17 performance, the cyclist from Lancaster County pleaded with the public for the benefit of the doubt.
He deserved it. Everyone does. The principle of presumed innocence is vital to the way our democracy operates.
A lot of things have happened since that first shocking news hit. None of it makes Landis look particularly good.
First, he and his team of doctors and lawyers ventured a series of explanations, each sillier than the one before it. Landis' levels were out of whack because of medication he took for a thyroid condition, or the cortisone he received for pain. He drank Jack Daniel's the night before. His levels are naturally high. Or he was dehydrated. Yeah, that's it. Dehydrated.
The second and most devastating development was a New York Times report, since confirmed by Landis' camp, that he tested positive for synthetic testosterone. That blew a hole through every possible excuse.
The science behind the testing is complex. The meaning is breathtakingly simple.
Floyd Landis is busted. Stone-cold, flat-out busted.
Cheating to win the Tour de France is wrong. Lying and lying and lying about it is infinitely worse for all sports and for every athlete.
Use Landis' own logic. He said he knew it would be hard for people to believe him because of all the lying and cheating that had gone on before. Landis acknowledged that he would have trouble believing someone else in the same situation.
Why? Because they all lie when they're caught.
So what did Landis accomplish? Next time an athlete tests positive and looks wide-eyed and innocent into the camera, it is going to be that much more difficult to believe him or her. The list of athletes who were caught, and who toyed with the public's trust by denying they cheated, just got one name longer.
Shot putter C.J. Hunter, the former husband and coach of Marion Jones, said he took legal supplements tainted by illegal compounds. A lie.
Sprinter Kelli White said she took a medication to battle narcolepsy. A lie.
Sprinter Ben Johnson said he must have been the victim of sabotage. A lie.
Rafael Palmeiro scolded Congress and said he'd never used steroids. A lie.
Landis should learn from the mistake of Barry Bonds. If Bonds had come clean when the Bay Area Laboratory Co-Operative story broke two years ago, his name and reputation likely would be saved by now. Instead a grand jury is considering whether he committed perjury.
You can imagine a scenario that explains why Landis might have decided to cheat back on July 20. It doesn't excuse cheating, but it allows for some compassion and understanding.
On July 19, Landis had a terrible day that he admitted made him feel tremendous pressure. He was the leader of the Phonak team, and that one awful day had taken him and his mates out of contention. He felt so bad and so far out of the race that he skipped his usual regimen and drank beer and whiskey with his friends.
Remember, this was probably Landis' one and only chance to win this race. Lance Armstrong had dominated the Tour for the previous seven years, and Landis is planning to have surgery on his arthritic hip. There's no guarantee he'll ever be as strong a rider as he was last month.
So with all that on his shoulders, in that moment of weakness, you can imagine him deciding to cheat just this one time. A little testosterone patch and maybe he could earn back some of the lost time in the mountain passes of Stage 17.
He won the stage.
Afterward, according to the Associated Press, he said, "I didn't expect it to work quite that well."
Those words have a whole different shade of meaning now.
You can understand the pressure to cheat, especially in a sport in which it's reasonable to assume everyone else is doing something to gain an edge. You can understand and even forgive someone who gives in to that temptation.
There is no scenario that excuses the lying and the damage it does to the credibility of every athlete in every sport. They can take Landis' title away, but there is no penalty for his most serious offense."
