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I have just heard of Les Saintes (also know as Isles des Saintes) that is part of Guadeloupe. It sounds very much like St. Barth in the 70's. Is any

Re: Isles des Saintes

I have done some homework as well. While much of the population is french, the islands are no longer a secret to the yachting or small cruise world. There are only a handful of hotels on the island with Bois Joli and Auberge Les Petits Saintes (the former mayor's house) looking to be the best properties. It sounds as though you walk or motor scooter everywhere. Dining is somewhat limitted, pretty high end at a few places (particularly Auberge Petits) and perhaps more creole than St Barts.

Beaches are casually topless. Clothing optional runs hot or cold. A few years ago, one of the remote beaches was considered the official unofficial nude beach. About three or four years ago they started handing out fines for nudity but now there are reports that those restrictions have been relaxed.

While I never went to SBH back in the early days, it sounds as though Les Islets may already be more "happening" than SBH 30 years ago. By that I mean they are already on the map of a lot of day boaters and even small ships. To that end, there will be some traffic, though not like Gustavia on New Years Eve.

From what I have found, it sounds like a fun, laid-back type of place, a little more creole and caribbean than St Barths though I have not heard of reggae bands or steel drums greeting you at the airport.

I eagerly await your firsthand account.

Merci.
 
Re: Isles des Saintes

Right now there on Terre de Haut is not much there except beautiful beaches. Lodging and restos are few and far between. There's Le Bois Joli and Auberge des Petits Saints aux Anacardiers, very popular (and small). Also: no cars allowed, and you won't find English spoken anywhere near the extent you do on SBH. All in all, it's a nice escape and has a lot more going for it than does Guadeloupe itself. Another island of similar stripe is Marie Galante (except there, cars are permitted).
 
Re: Isles des Saintes

Not yet...more to come late August or in December. I want to be certain before I post too much of an opinion. Thanks for the patience. Ric
 
Re: Isles des Saintes - REAL ESTATE

Hello.
Does anyone know of a site for Real Estate on Isles des Saintes? Or does any one have a phone number or email for a realtor? I just bought a villa in St Barth - I am a bit worried I could have gotten a MUCH nicer property in Isles des Saintes. I am arriving in St Barth on Friday 9/4. I plan to visit Isles des Sainte ( by boat ) to have a look around. I will post my findings. But in the mean time - any realtor info would be a great help. Thansk, Chris.
 
Re: Isles des Saintes - REAL ESTATE

Isle des Saintes is completely different than St. Barths. There are no circumstances where I would think it was a good idea to relocate there with small children. Happydad I wish you the best of luck. If your choice was to live in the Caribbean you have made about the best choice possible.
 
Re: Isles des Saintes - REAL ESTATE

I know of a few children who were raised in an environment very much like that which exists in Isle de Saintes and they turned out just fine...of course that is depending on what one would describe as "just fine".....I suppose happy dad can just stay in the USA where american children lead the world in diabetes, obesity, drug addiction, leukemia, and clinical depression, while at the same time are falling behind they rest of the industrialized world in math and language skills.....and St Barts is not a bad idea either...but I certainly wouldnt dismiss Isle De Saintes just because it doesnt meet our very subjectively slanted idea of a civilized society, which most of the world doesnt agree with anyway........if Isle de Saintes, or anywhere else for that matter, offers you what, in your mind , you want your children exposed to.....or more importantly, not exposed to.... then go for it
 
Re: Isles des Saintes - REAL ESTATE

No - please don't worry!
There is NOWHERE like St. Barth !
Just looking at my bank account... thinking my god I'm broke!
But seriously - to give mt kids the chance to grow up in St Barths is the best money ever spent.
 
Re: Isles des Saintes - REAL ESTATE

Dear Mike R ... I think I've opened up a can of worms!
I don't know if you read my message " Danger In St. Barth". I actually bought a villa in Corossol for myself, my wife, and our three kids. We fell in Love with the simplicity and beauty of St. Barth. I agree - growing up in St Barth away from a multitude of problems is a good thing. My mother always said that children should be happy and free. I hope that I can give my children a happy free life on St Barth - enjoying a wide range of people - enjoying nature - and enjoying a life of being together as a family. I know a great many people who have done very well - and are not very happy. St Barth is a magical place... we all are VERY excited to call it home .... starting Saturday !!! :)
 
Re: Isles des Saintes - REAL ESTATE

Sorry MikeR but I would like to offer you a mulligan on that last shot you fired. If you are correct about the litany of sins you attribute to the USA, and presumably all of the USA, can you assure us that life in the islands escapes that list of horribles? Is there no depression, no drug issue, etc.?
My strongest concern for kids from North America raised in the carefree Carib environment on boats or whatever is that the lifestyle from their perspective has a lot more to do with their parents' view of freedom than their own best interests.
Put practically, if kids are raised that way, they do not have the interaction with other kids that we think is valuable. Not to mention that they are required by the arrangement to live out their parents' fantasy about life.
We just don't buy it.
We would love it if, as you suggest, the USA were totally corrupt and the Caribbean were pure, but you and I know that ain't so. And I repeat, raising kids that way is all about the parents and not much about the kids.
 
Re: Isles des Saintes - REAL ESTATE

Noel...thanks but I dont need the mulligan for this one...I stand by my facts...of course all of those things exist elsewhere....but not to the degree it exists here and the facts from the World Health Organization and the National Education Association back that up...... I raised my kids to always think outside the box and not be confined by what "conventional wisdom" says is "normal"...and they turned out okay.....I'm not saying its be all end all and for everyone...what I am saying is if that is what defines ones values in raising kids....then go for it.....are we so arrogant that we think our way of life and raising children is the only true way???..thats sounds dangerously Catholic to me....and if you met the kids I know who were raised in that God awful environment...and you didnt know it...you would be quite impressed with how they grew up and what they grew up to be...I guess their parents were just lucky eh?
 
Re: Isles des Saintes - REAL ESTATE

What we all in this thread, myself included, appear to be looking for is "St Barts Lite". That is, we are trying to find that magical and almost mythical place that St Jimmy discovered over thirty years ago. A few mokes, the occasional dusty watering hole, modern day pirates throwing back beer with well-known and loved locals.

For those of us who never went to St Barts "Back In The Day" this image of a quiet, unknown, casual yet chic watering hole is very seductive. As such, it is not unnatural that we would all want to find "The Next St Barts".

But by that reasoning might we also be looking for The Next Paris? Or The Next Rome?

St Barts is not what it is because of what it was. That is, it is what it is NOW. And while I am trying to build up a catelogue of memories on the island, and perhaps a Humorous Or Outrageous Story or two, I very much live in the present day and time.

The world is a VASTLY different place than it was when St Jimmy discovered St Barts in the seventies. In those days, well-healed pirates, European financiers, Hollywood starlettes and Big Money East Coasters could all dash down to St Barts and folks around these parts would say "St WHERE? Is that like Jamaica or some other Mexican place?"

But now The Secret is out.

St Barts "Back In The Day" did not have to contend with the internet. It did not have to contend with an ENORMOUS American middle class with leisure time and money to burn. So few knew of the place, and fewer still even travelled to the place, that it retained its quiet, unknown charm for quite some time.

We now have the largest bolus of Middle Aged Americans in history. We have time, we have money, we like fine food, we like fine wine and we dont care if our little tushies get sunburned. As such, St Barts is "on the map".

And those people who write articles about "The New Undiscovered Gems Of The Caribbean" dont fool me. Because just as soon as Harbor Island or Parrot Cay or Turks And Caicos get "on the map" then, duh, to this southern boy's way of thinking, then they are "discovered" too.

Les Saintes sounds intriguing. But make no mistake. It is NOT St Barts. Nor will it probably ever be for several reasons:

1. It is already "discovered" and bringing in a vibrant yacht trade as well as small cruise ships

2. It is an easy ferry ride for Guadaloupe and could be overrun with Daytrippers at any moment.

3. It does not have the same "infrastructure" as St Barts in the way of hotels or numerous villas

4. It is smaller and wont support the several dozen restaurants that we all love on St Barts.

Now, none of this is to say that Les Saintes is not worthwhile. I am very intrigued by the place - as a runaway. That is, a place where you can go when you dont want ANYONE to find you. In such a sense, it could be very nice.

St Barts has a uniqueness that will be hard/impossible for any other island to reproduce. There is no builtin underclass, no widespread poverty, the island is large enough to woo top-notch french chefs from the metropole, it attracts money and glam and glitz but has not become an enormous Paparrazi Paradise (because The Money hide out in villas instead of on the beach).

Since "the church" was raised in a previous post, let me use a metaphor here. Man has known, according to some religious thought, one paradise in history - The Garden Of Eden.

And we got thrown out of that, according to stories we have been told.

As such, everywhere else will have a balance between the good and the bad. And that will be true anywhere we go.

St Barts is "Grown Up". She may no longer have the innocent charm of her virginal youth. But she strikes me as a chic, mature and sophisticated lady who improves with age, for those who can appreciate her.

Yes, there are still other "virgins" left in the caribbean. And the various magazines extoll their virtues with each issue. For those wanting to find an "unspoiled youth" in the islands, I say they better hurry because The Dance has already started.

For me, it is not so much about how The New Virgins compare to The Grande Dame St Barts at the present time. With lusty travellers scouring every nook and cranny of the caribbean, even the most innocent, freshly scrubbed youths will grow up fast, real fast. As such, what will Today's Virgins look like tomorrow after The Crowd (read: US) have discovered them?

My thought is that NONE of them will grow up to be The Lady that St Barts is.

I am middle aged myself. And for my money, a sophisticated, mature lady such as St Barts suits my tastes just fine.

For anyone who does "have a fling" with Les Saintes, I would be quite interested to hear how it goes. Even so, I look for many happy anniversaries with my love, St Barts.

Just one Newby/Tweener's opinion.
 
Re: Isles des Saintes - REAL ESTATE

And I thought only great debates could be had over politics ...

Isn't it funny that what goes around truly comes around? In some cases (i.e. mine), our own parents left the now-glitzy European shores for a better life in the Promised Land, and with no regrets -- despite that many of their brethren in Italy are now leading relatively prosperous lives. Where people once sought civilization and industrialization, they now want to return to "basics."

For what it's worth, the various locals I spoke with on SBH (I have a habit of interviewing people) all expressed loyalty to the island and its vast beauty, but much dissatisfaction with necessities like healthcare. Yes, this is a necessity. I know our grandparents gave birth on their farms while harvesting tomatoes, but who can argue that we're collectively a much less resilient people? We get to choose whether or not we want to birth our children in a bathtub with a midwife. Life is good because we have those choices. The folks on Barths were complaining about how scary it was when their workers broke limbs or had serious car accidents. Sure, maybe they wouldn't be building new villas if the tourists never came, if the place remained undiscovered; and sure, maybe there would be far fewer accidents if the uninitiated foreigners weren't trying to navigate those roads. But women still have babies, no matter how remote their residence (and assuming there are men around ;), and I heard several complaints from SBH moms who couldn't be helicoptered to St. Martin or Gaudeloupe in the middle of the night when they suddenly went into early labor, and their children barely survived the birthing. Anything or anyone considered a "high risk" -- and that's everyone these days, it seems -- must leave the island ahead of time. Those in cardiac arrest had better pray they're experiencing it before the sun goes down, or they're not getting off the island. Perhaps these are things only westernized paranoid folks like me think about ... people who grew up Catholic and not on a remote island. ;-)

Seriously, Mike, your points are well taken. But many of us do like a certain level of civilization, even on vacation. I loved SBH, but it was only my first trip and I've never known any other Barth than the one I saw -- though I can vividly imagine the one you and other long-timers have described. Frankly, that Barth sounds a lot like my parents' native town in Italy when I was a little girl and it was still barely industrialized, and though I too lament the "Americanization" of beautiful places far from our States, I'm happy to embrace things like better healthcare and better hygiene -- both of which I've witnessed in Europe in the last decade. And I'm more than happy to have, what, 70-plus gourmet eateries from which to choose when I'm on vacation.

Sorry if this makes me a spoiled, (relatively) young American, but hell, I still loved sitting under the tree at Le Select -- where it was very interesting to watch the world go by, in all its forms. (For the record, I was listening to plenty of French fisherman as they argued over their own trivia.) During my low-season voyage, I found very few restaurants open past 9 p.m., and very few crowded places at all (except the deviation roads after beach time -- though I saw so few people on the beaches!). I'd hardly call that a metropolis, though I've not been there during the reportedly nightmarish holiday season.

Anyway, what am I doing? I'm on deadline! You people just keep bringing me back in ... ;-)
 
Re: Isles des Saintes - REAL ESTATE

Replying to myself here ...
Let me correct myself regarding the crowds in two instances: Le Ti on "Circus Night" (whose atmosphere appealed to me not in the least, despite that I'd been looking forward to the whole "dancing on the tables" bit -- even with the loud music outlawed after midnight) and one night at K'fe Massai, which I felt was not worth the 30-minute wait.

Back to work ...
 
Re: Isles des Saintes - REAL ESTATE

Sandy.....if we are ever on island together I will take you to a half dozen people on the island who, when you hear them talk, you will think it is me talking because it will sound exactly the same. They are not as concerned with the rapid development of the island as they are of the possible and potential Americanization of the island...and that has been my point all along...yeah I would rather see no development but I can live with it all by going in low season for now and all is good.... .but on the americanization issue,for example.....Wendi has gotten fairly friendly with the woman who manages the Petit Columbe bakery...and the first time they met was when Wendi watched an American family yelling in English to this woman about what they wanted ...and the woman was getting really embarassed because she could not understand them and the Americans had the nerve to actually get annoyed that she couldnt understand them...which of course made the Americans yell even louder ( why they think yelling increases comprehension is beyond me ).....Wendi finally stood up and told the woman behind the counter, in French, "this is your island for God sakes and french is your language as well as the language of the island....if these morons cant understand you or figure a way to communicate to you what they want in any other method other then yelling louder, then let them starve....the burden is on them to understand you, not vice versa....dont let these people take your culture from you"...well....the woman behind the counter put a huge smile on and laughed and thanked Wendi for the reminder....and the funniest part was...the Americans thought Wendi was speaking on their behalf as well.....they soon learned different as Wendi turned and walked away from them shaking her head in disgust and not helping them with ordering whatever it was they wanted....LOL...and the woman and Wendi have been good friends since....and they often sit and drink coffee in the shop and laugh at the peculiar American tourists, as they come in and fumble and bumble through something as simple as buying a baguette....LOL......and Sandy I too love civilization....Im not a creten...I smoke my Cubans and wash it down with XO cognac...I eat the finest food available...I understand all that....its not the development that bothers me or some people on ST Barts at all...its the type of development...and the thought that taking your children to an island to live as forcing your own hopes and dreams and freedoms on your children is beyond any concept of bizzare I can fathom....some parents ( some of whom I know ) raise incredible kids outside the USA in remote places and everything turns out wonderful...I know a girl here who will probably be an Olympic skier and was moved by her parents to a remote island off of Alaska, where they too thought was a better plan then living in the mainstream ( go figure ) and she is the most intelligent well rounded charming child you can imagine with social grace far beyond the grace exhibited by kids who were raised in what some would describe as a "normal" and "healthy" environment...I for one would rather see my children raised by wolves then be raised in Suburbia USA...now THATS a scarey place...talk about sterilized and homogenized???....and yet lots of people would call that "normal" and "healthy" and "good".....Some of us need to come to terms with the fact that, as tourists, we are not very respected globally at all. Hell, as tourists, we cant even get respect in our own country resorts, never mind out of the country....LOL..... Are there exceptions to the rule??...of course there are......we are all living proof of that....but give me a bottle and a glass and I will tell you 35 years worth of stories that will make you too ashamed to be a representation of this particular demographic...LOL....
 
Re: Isles des Saintes - REAL ESTATE

"We just don't buy it"?
Analysis of all things apparently continues to be measured in monetary value...
The business of America is business-Harry Truman.

It is difficult to respect the written experiences of one that has barely breached an island's life, yet still strongly presents an analogy of the balance of crime, traffic, development, and dearth of sensual passion in any city with the maturity, calmness, beauty, wit, natural chic and innate confidence of God's little flower.

American culture favors performance over correctness. e.g.-the space shuttle...
The trouble with the rat race in America is that when it's over, one is still rat.

St Barths is a composite of grace, an inexhaustible source of seduction. A paradisical spot on earth. My fervent wish is that those who visit and find fault, will find their paradise in other climes that provide the conveniences necessary to fuel their lives.
 
Re: Isles des Saintes - REAL ESTATE

If I am not mistaken, are we not all somewhat in agreement on this issue?

Sure, there are plenty of Ugly American who visit St Barts. But there are also plenty of us who make it a point to try our best to fit in with the local customs and culture. And as for the place becoming "too Americanized" that can happen ONLY if they allow it to happen.

France has been over-run by pretty much everyone at some time or other in history. And through the ages, as the hordes have run through, pilfered, pillaged and plundered, the french have gone about doing what they do best: Being french.

No invasion or conquerers, be it the brits, the germans, folks from the east, modern troops, forces from antiquity, hollywood movies or even the internet, has ever outlasted the frenchness of the french.

As such, my money is on St Barths to remain french as long as it chooses to do so. Like their cousins back in the metropole they will probably be drinking wine, enjoying fine food and chatting amicably around small tables, living large and loving life, long after we are dead and gone.

In the meantime, I should be quite pleased if they saw fit to adopt me as an honorary member of their most congenial society, at least on a casual basis.

A bientot, mes amis.
 
Re: Isles des Saintes - REAL ESTATE

If you take a look at the first post you will find that I posted it. I have now booked a flight to Guadeloupe for Thankgiving, and am taking the plunge. Any additional insights and recommendations will be greatly appreciated.

One question up front. I will be on an Air Canada flight that arrives in Guadeloupe at 6:45. Will I be able to make it to Les Saintes that night, or should I stay in Guadeloupe? If I stay, any recommendations?

Thanks
 
Re: Isles des Saintes - REAL ESTATE

Martin,

More than likely you will need to overnight in PTP. We stayed two separate nights in PTP at the Saint John Perse. It is a dive-know that up front. But close to the airport and not as much of a dive as you COULD get in the area!

We hung out both nights at the little Indian rest just behind the hotel. Good food but the company was the best part! The guys from the rest were really nice and we had several good chats. But the group from the upstairs tatoo parlor topped it off. If you go there you will see them-quite a mix of people from Prague, France, etc. and they have these two little dogs that are sweet. The tall guy with the cowboy hat and really rough cigarette voice is a site! This is also the area near the cruise ship dock and we watched the ship being loaded up right before Christmas with people from Italy and France. Some of the boat crew (dancers) were eating and it was just funny...
They have a good front desk staff, wake up calls, bfast included, clean rooms, close to the ferry dock and a short taxi from the airport. Room should run you 80E and I have a good person that can make the reservation if you need help. We wandered around some but most people I know would not have even gotten out of the taxi at the Hotel! We just go with the flow and figure it's all good :) We even had a good time for a while helping the Costa rep 'welcome' everyone onto the ship in their countries language-all in a days fun on this trip. We also met a nice young guy from the French Navy on his way to his families home on TdB-shared a taxi to the ferry and saw him again with his entire family eating at Chez Eugentte the day we came over to TdB! Good grief, I really need to write that darn report and quit sending snipits.

I did send you the PM so let me know if you have any other questions. Talk to you soon,

Erma
 
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