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Thread: Le Collectif Santé

  1. #1
    cassidain is online now
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    Le Collectif Santé


    L’INQUIÉTUDE DU COLLECTIF SANTÉ FACE À L’OBLIGATION VACCINALE


    par T.F.
    09/09/2021

    Face à la volonté affirmée de l’Agence régionale de santé d’appliquer à la lettre l’obligation vaccinale pour les professionnels des secteurs médico-sociaux de Saint-Barth, le Collectif Santé craint de voir un système instable s’effondrer. La rencontre devait permettre d’arrondir les angles. Mais vendredi 3 septembre, en l’hôtel de la Collectivité à Gustavia, les six représentants du Collectif Santé se sont heurtés à une Valérie Denux déterminée. En effet, la directrice de l’Agence régionale de santé (ARS) a fermement exprimé son intention d’appliquer à la lettre l’obligation vaccinale destinée aux professionnels des secteurs médico-sociaux, inscrite dans la loi relative à la gestion de la crise sanitaire et qui doit entrer en vigueur dès le 15 septembre (lire ci-contre). Une position qui n’a pas manqué de surprendre le Collectif, qui voyait en cette réunion - à laquelle participait également le préfet, Serge Gouteyron - l’occasion de trouver une solution afin d’adapter la loi aux réalités du territoire.Pas anti-vaccin
    Le Collectif Santé réunit une soixantaine de personnes. Des personnels de santé, principalement. « Vaccinés, non vaccinés, explique l’un des membres. Nous ne sommes pas contre les vaccins, notre objectif est de défendre notre liberté vaccinale. » Une nuance qui a son importance. Notamment lorsque le Collectif évoque les principales raisons de son inquiétude.
    « Lorsque l’obligation vaccinale a été validée par la loi du 5 août, on a compris qu’il y aurait des problèmes à Saint-Barth, assure une praticienne de santé. A cause du manque de personnels soignants mais aussi du turn-over permanent sur l’île, essentiellement lié à la difficulté de trouver un logement. » Le Collectif évoque « une politique des vases communicants » qui envoie des soignants de l’hôpital à l’Ehpad pour pallier aux manques. « Elle existe depuis des années, constate la praticienne. Les soignants sont en difficultés. Alors si en plus on nous suspend, comment ça va se passer ? »
    L’ARS tranchera certainement en annonçant l’arrivée de personnels venus de l’Hexagone. Mais pour combien de temps, s’interroge le Collectif ? Car nombre de professionnels de l’île officient en qualité de praticien libéral. « Pour nous remplacer sur l’île, il faudra s’installer car il ne sera pas possible de le faire de manière ponctuelle, avertit une soignante. Ça va être compliqué. Sans oublier que notre patientèle constitue un patrimoine. Donc je ne suis pas certaine qu’il soit possible, légalement, de nous couper de nos patients et de la CPS (Caisse prévoyance santé). Selon le Code de la santé publique, on ne peut être sanctionné que par étapes et il faut avoir fait des choses graves pour passer devant le Conseil de l’ordre. »Se tourner vers le préfet
    Le Collectif regrette la « rigidité » de la position adoptée par la directrice de l’ARS. Par conséquent, il nourrit quelque espoir de trouver une oreille plus attentive auprès du préfet Gouteyron. « Je pense qu’il pourrait trouver une solution pour adapter cette obligation vaccinale à Saint-Barth, espère une soignante. Le préfet doit prendre conscience du danger pour notre système de santé. »
    La prolongation de l’état d’urgence jusqu’au 15 novembre à Saint-Barth (lire ci-contre) peut être un levier pour repousser la mise en application de l’obligation vaccinale. Néanmoins, rien n’indique que le préfet ne prendra le risque d’aller à l’encontre de la volonté de l’ARS.
    Pour le Collectif, il est nécessaire de « lancer un appel à la raison ». Ses membres insistent : « Il faut préserver notre système de santé. On ne va pas le faire s’écrouler pour un vaccin qui n’empêche pas de contracter et de transmettre le virus. Et puis l’Etat d’urgence, pour nous, ça n’a rien changé. On a travaillé de la même manière, même au début de l’épidémie alors que l’on n’avait pas les masques et les gants suffisants. On y est allé sans rechigner. En Guadeloupe en ce moment, ils continuent d’utiliser les soignants non-vaccinés parce que c’est la crise. Mais dès qu’on n’en aura plus besoin, on va les obliger à se vacciner. »
    A moins d’une semaine de la date couperet, le Collectif espère obtenir un report de l’obligation vaccinale. Mais à moyen terme, il n’exclue pas d’engager des procédures judiciaires. Le 15 septembre ne s’annonce donc que comme le début d’une contestation résolue. Ils sont visés par l’obligation vaccinale
    La loi impose une obligation vaccinale aux salariés travaillant dans les secteurs médico-sociaux. Soumise au Conseil constitutionnel, cette disposition a été validée par les Sages.
    Doivent être vaccinées contre la Covid-19, sauf contre-indication médicale reconnue, les personnes exerçant leur activité dans (Loi art. 12, I) :
    - Les établissements, centres ou maisons de santé, publics ou privés.
    - Les centres et équipes mobiles de soins aux personnes en situation de précarité ou d’exclusion.
    - Les dispositifs d’appui à la coordination des parcours de santé complexe.
    - Les centres de lutte contre la tuberculose et les centres d’information, de dépistage et de diagnostic du VIH et des infections sexuellement transmissibles.
    - Les services de prévention et de santé au travail et les services de médecine préventive des étudiants.
    - Les établissements et services sociaux et médicaux-sociaux, à l’exception des travailleurs handicapés accompagnés dans le cadre d’un contrat de soutien et d’aide par le travail.
    - Les résidences et habitats collectifs recevant notamment les personnes âgées ou handicapées, les jeunes travailleurs ou les travailleurs migrants.
    Il en est de même (Loi art. 12, I) :
    - Des professionnels de santé, des psychologues, des psychothérapeutes, des ostéopathes et chiropracteurs ne travaillant pas dans un des établissements visés ci-dessus et des personnes travaillants dans les mêmes locaux que ces derniers.
    - Des étudiants ou élèves des établissements préparant à l’exercice des professions mentionnées ci-dessus.
    - Des personnes exerçant l’activité de transport sanitaire (ambulanciers…).
    - Des personnels des services d’incendie et de secours (sapeurs-pompiers, marins-pompiers, personnels des associations de sécurité civile…).
    - Des prestataires de services et des distributeurs de matériels médicaux.
    - Des professionnels employés par un particulier employeur attributaire de l’allocation personnalisée d’autonomie ou de la prestation de compensation du handicap.
    Des listes plus détaillées figurent dans le Questions-réponses du ministère de la Santé du 18 août 2021.
    En revanche, les personnes chargées de l’exécution d’une tâche ponctuelle au sein des établissements précités ou dans les locaux dans lesquels travaillent des professionnels de santé, des psychologues, des psychothérapeutes, des ostéopathes ou des chiropracteurs ne sont pas concernées par l’obligation vaccinale (Loi art. 12, III).
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  2. #2
    JEK is offline
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    Re: Le Collectif Santé

    The concern of the health collective against the immunization obligation




    T.F.
    09/09/2021


    Faced with the affirmed will of the Regional Health Agency to apply to the letter the immunization obligation for the professionals of the medico-social sectors of Saint-Barth, the health collective fears to see an unstable system collapse. The meeting was to allow rounding angles. But Friday, September 3, in the hotel of the community in Gustavia, the six representatives of the Health Collective faced a determined Denux Valérie. Indeed, the Director of the Regional Health Agency (ARS) strongly expressed its intention to apply to the letter the immunization obligation for the professionals of the medico-social sectors, listed in the law relating to the management of the crisis sanitary and who must come into force as early as September 15 (read opposite). A position that did not fail to surprise the collective, which saw in this meeting - which also participated in the prefect, Serge Gouteyron - the opportunity to find a solution to adapt the law to the realities of the territory. vaccine


    The health collective brings together about sixty people. Health personnel, mainly. "Vaccinated, unvaccinated, explains one of the members. We are not against vaccines, our goal is to defend our vaccine freedom. A nuance that is important. Especially when the collective evokes the main reasons for his concern.
    "When the vaccination obligation has been validated by the law of August 5, there were problems with Saint-Barth, provides a health practitioner. Because of the lack of caregivers but also the permanent turnover on the island, mainly related to the difficulty of finding a home. The collective evokes "a communicating vases policy" which sends caregivers of the hospital to the EHPAD to overcome the gaps. "She has existed for years, notes the practitioner. Caregivers are in difficulty. So if we are suspended, how will it happen? »


    The ARS will certainly decide by announcing the arrival of personal from the hexagon. But for how long, questions the collective? Because many professionals on the island officent as a Liberal practitioner. "To replace us on the island, it will be necessary to settle because it will not be possible to do it on a punctual way, warns a caregiver. It's going to be complicated. Not to mention that our patient is a heritage. So I'm not sure it is possible, legally, to cut us from our patients and the CPS (health pension fund). According to the Code of Public Health, we can only be sanctioned in stages and we must have done serious things to pass before the Council of the Order. »Turn to the prefect


    The collective regrets the "rigidity" of the position adopted by the Director of the ARS. Therefore, it nourishes some hope of finding a more attentive ear with the Prefect Gouteyron. "I think he could find a solution to adapt this vaccine obligation to St. Barth, hopes for a caregiver. The prefect must become aware of the danger for our health system. »


    The extension of the state of emergency until 15 November in Saint-Barth (read opposite) may be a lever to repel the implementation of the vaccination obligation. Nevertheless, there is no indication that the prefect will take the risk of going against the will of the ARS.
    For the collective, it is necessary to "launch a call for reason". Its members insist: "We must preserve our health system. We will not have it crumble for a vaccine that does not prevent to contract and transmit the virus. And then the state of emergency, for us, it has not changed anything. We worked in the same way, even at the beginning of the epidemic as we did not have sufficient masks and gloves. We went there without recoating. In Guadeloupe right now, they continue to use non-vaccinated caregivers because it is the crisis. But as soon as we need to be needed, we will force them to vaccinate. »
    With less than a week of the date Copaver, the collective hopes to obtain a postponement of the immunization obligation. But in the medium term, it does not exclude to engage judicial proceedings. On September 15, therefore, is therefore only as the beginning of a resolute protest. They are targeted by the immunization obligation


    The law imposes a vaccination obligation on employees working in the medico-social sectors. Submitted to the Constitutional Council, this provision has been validated by the sages.


    Must be vaccinated against COVID-19, unless recognized medical counter-indication, persons carrying out their activity in (law art. 12, I):
    - institutions, centers or homes of health, public or private.
    - Mobile care centers and teams for people in precarious or exclusion.
    - COORDI support devices
    The Marius 100th Birthday Party Memorial -- June 5, 2023

  3. #3
    cassidain is online now
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    Re: Le Collectif Santé

    the new law obligating professionals in the medico-social fields to be vaccinated has spawned a resistance movement on saint-barth. those leading the resistance argue that the island can ill afford to lose the services of those declining to be vaccinated. the health authorities are bowing their collective backs, and so there appears to be a standoff at the present. à suivre . . .
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  4. #4
    JEK is offline
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    Re: Le Collectif Santé

    Hippocratic Oath: Modern Version

    I swear to fulfill, to the best of my ability and judgment, this covenant:
    I will respect the hard-won scientific gains of those physicians in whose steps I walk, and gladly share such knowledge as is mine with those who are to follow.
    I will apply, for the benefit of the sick, all measures [that] are required, avoiding those twin traps of overtreatment and therapeutic nihilism.
    I will remember that there is art to medicine as well as science, and that warmth, sympathy, and understanding may outweigh the surgeon's knife or the chemist's drug.
    I will not be ashamed to say "I know not," nor will I fail to call in my colleagues when the skills of another are needed for a patient's recovery.
    I will respect the privacy of my patients, for their problems are not disclosed to me that the world may know. Most especially must I tread with care in matters of life and death. If it is given me to save a life, all thanks. But it may also be within my power to take a life; this awesome responsibility must be faced with great humbleness and awareness of my own frailty. Above all, I must not play at God.
    I will remember that I do not treat a fever chart, a cancerous growth, but a sick human being, whose illness may affect the person's family and economic stability. My responsibility includes these related problems, if I am to care adequately for the sick.
    I will prevent disease whenever I can, for prevention is preferable to cure.
    I will remember that I remain a member of society, with special obligations to all my fellow human beings, those sound of mind and body as well as the infirm.
    If I do not violate this oath, may I enjoy life and art, respected while I live and remembered with affection thereafter. May I always act so as to preserve the finest traditions of my calling and may I long experience the joy of healing those who seek my help.
    —Written in 1964 by Louis Lasagna, Academic Dean of the School of Medicine at Tufts University, and used in many medical schools today.
    The Marius 100th Birthday Party Memorial -- June 5, 2023

  5. #5
    didier is offline
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    Re: Le Collectif Santé

    Quote Originally Posted by cassidain View Post
    the new law obligating professionals in the medico-social fields to be vaccinated has spawned a resistance movement on saint-barth. those leading the resistance argue that the island can ill afford to lose the services of those declining to be vaccinated. the health authorities are bowing their collective backs, and so there appears to be a standoff at the present. à suivre . . .
    forced covid vaccinations will not work for this island. We need to keep the doctors that we have. I know of one medical professional that was here for over fifteen years and left a couple of weeks ago, very sad indeed.

  6. #6
    cassidain is online now
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    Re: Le Collectif Santé

    Quote Originally Posted by didier View Post
    forced covid vaccinations will not work for this island. .
    nor for a lot of other places
    Fils du Sud - Roi des Fils Verrouillés

    If I can't wear my Havaianas, I ain't goin'...ÀMHA

  7. #7
    kent1994 is offline
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    Re: Le Collectif Santé

    "I will prevent disease whenever I can, for prevention is preferable to cure."

    Why should any medical professional, doctor, nurse or care giver in a retirement home be able to treat the most vulnerable to Covid without being vaccinated?

  8. #8
    cassidain is online now
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    Re: Le Collectif Santé

    from National Institute of Health website:

    Hippocratic Oath


    I swear by Apollo the physician, and Asclepius, and Hygieia and Panacea and all the gods and goddesses as my witnesses, that, according to my ability and judgement, I will keep this Oath and this contract:
    To hold him who taught me this art equally dear to me as my parents, to be a partner in life with him, and to fulfill his needs when required; to look upon his offspring as equals to my own siblings, and to teach them this art, if they shall wish to learn it, without fee or contract; and that by the set rules, lectures, and every other mode of instruction, I will impart a knowledge of the art to my own sons, and those of my teachers, and to students bound by this contract and having sworn this Oath to the law of medicine, but to no others.
    I will use those dietary regimens which will benefit my patients according to my greatest ability and judgement, and I will do no harm or injustice to them.
    I will not give a lethal drug to anyone if I am asked, nor will I advise such a plan; and similarly I will not give a woman a pessary to cause an abortion.
    In purity and according to divine law will I carry out my life and my art.
    I will not use the knife, even upon those suffering from stones, but I will leave this to those who are trained in this craft.
    Into whatever homes I go, I will enter them for the benefit of the sick, avoiding any voluntary act of impropriety or corruption, including the seduction of women or men, whether they are free men or slaves.
    Whatever I see or hear in the lives of my patients, whether in connection with my professional practice or not, which ought not to be spoken of outside, I will keep secret, as considering all such things to be private.
    So long as I maintain this Oath faithfully and without corruption, may it be granted to me to partake of life fully and the practice of my art, gaining the respect of all men for all time. However, should I transgress this Oath and violate it, may the opposite be my fate.
    Translated by Michael North, National Library of Medicine, 2002.
    Fils du Sud - Roi des Fils Verrouillés

    If I can't wear my Havaianas, I ain't goin'...ÀMHA

  9. #9
    didier is offline
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    Re: Le Collectif Santé

    starting Monday sept. 13, when the health pass is required at restaurants etc. the restaurants will not be requiring customers to wear a mask anymore. woo hoo! also, the restaurants don't need to space out the tables ..not that many restaurants on the island did that anyway. almost back to normal. very few restaurants open. le select is closed for renovations.

  10. #10
    cec1 is online now
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    Re: Le Collectif Santé

    Quote Originally Posted by didier View Post
    starting Monday sept. 13, when the health pass is required at restaurants etc. the restaurants will not be requiring customers to wear a mask anymore. woo hoo! also, the restaurants don't need to space out the tables ..not that many restaurants on the island did that anyway. almost back to normal. very few restaurants open. le select is closed for renovations.
    I hope the new standards don’t begin another “surge” cycle! Right now, as I’m sure you know, Diana, the “packed” restaurants of last week have passed from the scene . . . it’s as though a lot of people came to the island for end of August / early September “R&R,” & they’ve now gone home. It also looks like the exuberance of “locals” in the festive week has subsided. I’m finding, as a result, that “social distancing” is normal in restaurants right now.

  11. #11
    cassidain is online now
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    Re: Le Collectif Santé

    Une manifestation prévue
    ce samedi 18 septembre
    Un appel à manifester a été lancé sur un réseau social, sous l’intitulé « Pour vos libertés ». Le rassemblement, qui sera suivi d’une marche, est annoncé devant la halle aux poissons à Gustavia, à 16h30. Le cortège de manifestants traversera ensuite Gustavia jusqu’au parvis de la Collectivité. « Com- bien de restrictions et de contrôles supplémentaires accepterez- vous encore ? », interroge l’un des organisateurs dans son appel à manifester. Elle ou il poursuit : « Assumerez-vous de dire à vos enfants quand ils vous poseront la question dans quelques années que oui, vous avez participé à la ségrégation qui est en cours ? Si vous trouvez la situation que nous vivons actuellement avec l’application du passe sanitaire absurde et injuste nous vous invitons à vous joindre à nous. »
    Des professionnels de santé et des pompiers réfractaires à l’obligation vaccinale qui leur est imposée devraient, selon l’auteur(e) de l’appel, participer à la marche de protestation.






    organizers have announced via social media a new civil liberties demonstration and march for this Saturday in Gustavia. the organizers ask, if you find the application of the pass sanitaire absurd and unjust we invite you to join us.
    Fils du Sud - Roi des Fils Verrouillés

    If I can't wear my Havaianas, I ain't goin'...ÀMHA

  12. #12
    cassidain is online now
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    Re: Le Collectif Santé

    Organizers estimate 350 participated in the rally, carrying signs supporting local health care professionals who decline the mandated injections as well as signs protesting the injection passport. "My body, my choice" "we're not guinea pigs, keep your hands off my children" "pro liberty" and so forth.
    I'm told many more in sympathy with the cause were there closely observing the goings on from the periphery.


    PLUS DE 300 PERSONNES DÉFILENT À GUSTAVIA CONTRE L’OBLIGATION VACCINALE


    19/09/2021

    Samedi dernier, ils étaient quelques dizaines à s’être rassemblés devant l’Hôtel de la Collectivité territoriale, à Gustavia. Cet après-midi, plus de 300 personnes (350 selon des manifestants) ont répondu à l’appel du Collectif Santé de Saint-Barth. Après s’être réunis devant la halle aux poissons, vers 16h15, ils ont marché jusqu’au parvis de la Collectivité.
    Si l’objectif principal de la manifestation était d’apporter un soutien aux professionnels de santé qui refusent de se soumettre à l’obligation vaccinale, l’événement a également été l’occasion pour de nombreux marcheurs d’exprimer leur farouche opposition au « passe sanitaire » comme à toute nouvelle injonction gouvernementale. Sur les pancartes étaient inscrits les slogans "Pour nos libertés", "Nos corps, nos choix", "On n'est pas des cobayes, ne touchez pas à nos enfants" ou encore "Non au pass sanitaire".
    Sur le parvis de la Collectivité, les représentantes du Collectif Santé ont pris la parole afin d’évoquer les menaces qui pèsent sur leur activité, les craintes pour leurs patients, mais aussi leur ressenti. Non sans émotion. « Si on nous empêche d’exercer, personne ne sait aujourd’hui ce qu’il va se passer pour nos patients, a lancé une praticienne en libéral. On se battra. » Et de recevoir le soutien de la foule.
    Les participants se sont ensuite dispersés, laissant les soignants à leurs incertitudes quant à leur sort prochain. « Je vis au jour le jour, explique une infirmière de la Clinique de Choisy. Si je reste sur ma position, je serai suspendue. Il faut rester positive pour les patients. »
    Plus de détails dans notre prochaine édition du Journal de Saint-Barth à paraître jeudi prochain, le 23 septembre.

    Fils du Sud - Roi des Fils Verrouillés

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  13. #13
    JEK is offline
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    Re: Le Collectif Santé

    MORE THAN 300 PEOPLE PARADE IN GUSTAVIA AGAINST THE IMMUNIZATION OBLIGATION



    09/19/2021


    Last Saturday, a few dozen of them gathered in front of the Hôtel de la Collectivité territoriale in Gustavia. This afternoon, more than 300 people (350 according to demonstrators) responded to the call of the Collectif Santé de Saint-Barth. After meeting in front of the fish market at around 4:15 pm, they walked to the square of the Collectivity.


    If the main objective of the event was to provide support to health professionals who refuse to submit to the vaccination obligation, the event was also an opportunity for many walkers to express their fierce opposition to " sanitary pass ”as with any new government injunction. On the signs were inscribed the slogans "For our freedoms", "Our bodies, our choices", "We are not guinea pigs, do not touch our children" or "No to the sanitary pass".


    On the forecourt of the Collectivity, representatives of the Collectif Santé spoke to discuss the threats to their business, fears for their patients, but also their feelings. Not without emotion. "If we are prevented from exercising, no one knows today what will happen to our patients," said a practitioner in private. We will fight. And to receive the support of the crowd.


    The participants then dispersed, leaving the caregivers to their uncertainties as to their next fate. “I live from day to day,” explains a nurse at the Clinique de Choisy. If I stay in my position, I will be suspended. We have to stay positive for the patients. "


    More details in our next edition of the Journal de Saint-Barth to be published next Thursday, September 23.
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  14. #14
    kent1994 is offline
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    Re: Le Collectif Santé

    Interesting that the nurse wants to stay "positive for the patients" but some health care workers won't get vaccinated for their patients.

  15. #15

    Re: Le Collectif Santé

    If some of the healthcare workers don't like medicinal science, they can opt for another profession. There is a well documented link among the French population between vaccine hesitancy and the level of education one has. Surely, the island will benefit greatly from a more educated workforce being infused into their healthcare system.

    https://www.thelancet.com/journals/l...012-8/fulltext

    As a frequent visitor to the island, I would certainly expect to be treated by medical personnel who are vaccinated against deadly and debilitating contagious diseases. Knowing that medical infrastructure is inadequate or that healthcare personnel do not follow widely accepted best practices for treatment of patients and prevention of spreading disease certainly will cause my to reevaluate where I spend the tens of thousands of dollars we inject into this local economy during our multiple visits every year.

    Did you know the island forces people to be vaccinated for yellow fever? Where are the protests against this? Yellow fever vaccines have killed people! /s

  16. #16
    JEK is offline
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    Re: Le Collectif Santé

    Quote Originally Posted by kent1994 View Post
    Interesting that the nurse wants to stay "positive for the patients" but some health care workers won't get vaccinated for their patients.
    Apparently positive thoughts and prayers . . .
    The Marius 100th Birthday Party Memorial -- June 5, 2023

  17. #17
    cassidain is online now
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    Re: Le Collectif Santé

    So many different perspectives. Moi, je suis pour la liberté.
    Fils du Sud - Roi des Fils Verrouillés

    If I can't wear my Havaianas, I ain't goin'...ÀMHA

  18. #18
    JEK is offline
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    Re: Le Collectif Santé

    Quote Originally Posted by garykool81 View Post
    If some of the healthcare workers don't like medicinal science, they can opt for another profession. There is a well documented link among the French population between vaccine hesitancy and the level of education one has. Surely, the island will benefit greatly from a more educated workforce being infused into their healthcare system.

    https://www.thelancet.com/journals/l...012-8/fulltext

    As a frequent visitor to the island, I would certainly expect to be treated by medical personnel who are vaccinated against deadly and debilitating contagious diseases. Knowing that medical infrastructure is inadequate or that healthcare personnel do not follow widely accepted best practices for treatment of patients and prevention of spreading disease certainly will cause my to reevaluate where I spend the tens of thousands of dollars we inject into this local economy during our multiple visits every year.

    Did you know the island forces people to be vaccinated for yellow fever? Where are the protests against this? Yellow fever vaccines have killed people! /s
    Even the Tourism office will have a hard time spinning the lack of qualified medical professionals on the island. One of hallmarks of the place has been timely, competent and professional care for the lesser or greater maladies that may befall the occasional visitor.
    The Marius 100th Birthday Party Memorial -- June 5, 2023

  19. #19
    cassidain is online now
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    Re: Le Collectif Santé

    Quote Originally Posted by JEK View Post
    Even the Tourism office will have a hard time spinning the lack of qualified medical professionals on the island.
    yep. I expect to see villa rental and sales prices start to plummet.
    Fils du Sud - Roi des Fils Verrouillés

    If I can't wear my Havaianas, I ain't goin'...ÀMHA

  20. #20
    kent1994 is offline
    SBH Insider Joined: Aug 2004 Oxford, Md. NYC Posts: 1,868

    Re: Le Collectif Santé

    Quote Originally Posted by cassidain View Post
    So many different perspectives. Moi, je suis pour la liberté.
    I am for freedom too.

  21. #21
    Logan is offline
    SBH Member Joined: Oct 2017 Posts: 39

    Re: Le Collectif Santé

    I couldn’t agree with you more

  22. #22
    andynap is online now
    SBH Insider Joined: Oct 2002 Philadelphia Posts: 45,204

    Re: Le Collectif Santé

    Quote Originally Posted by JEK View Post
    Even the Tourism office will have a hard time spinning the lack of qualified medical professionals on the island. One of hallmarks of the place has been timely, competent and professional care for the lesser or greater maladies that may befall the occasional visitor.
    I don’t recall seeing medical care a hallmark of the island. However, the many posts about the lack thereof may impact tourism down the road.


    Andy

  23. #23
    Logan is offline
    SBH Member Joined: Oct 2017 Posts: 39

    Re: Le Collectif Santé

    I could not agree more with garykool81

  24. #24
    JEK is offline
    Senior Insider Joined: Jan 2004 In the ether . . . Posts: 55,349

    Re: Le Collectif Santé

    Quote Originally Posted by andynap View Post
    I don’t recall seeing medical care a hallmark of the island. However, the many posts about the lack thereof may impact tourism down the road.
    I recall many trip reports with well, trips to the hospital for a stitch or a broken bone. Probably more to a dentist for for a lost crown. I remember getting a perscription filled after a quick consult with a doc in Gustavia. And of course there is the legendary early care that Rosemond received before his airlift to hospital.
    The Marius 100th Birthday Party Memorial -- June 5, 2023

  25. #25
    cassidain is online now
    SBH Insider Joined: Jul 2007 Ailleurs Posts: 7,828

    Re: Le Collectif Santé

    Quote Originally Posted by andynap View Post
    I don’t recall seeing medical care a hallmark of the island. However, the many posts about the lack thereof may impact tourism down the road.
    yep, I’m standing by to pick up villa at bargain price when everyone turns against Saint-Barth.
    Fils du Sud - Roi des Fils Verrouillés

    If I can't wear my Havaianas, I ain't goin'...ÀMHA

  26. #26
    JEK is offline
    Senior Insider Joined: Jan 2004 In the ether . . . Posts: 55,349

    Re: Le Collectif Santé

    I don't think there will be a big turn away, but people of a certain age, say over seventy five, and/or those with other morbidities, may find alternatives to the little rock.
    The Marius 100th Birthday Party Memorial -- June 5, 2023

  27. #27
    andynap is online now
    SBH Insider Joined: Oct 2002 Philadelphia Posts: 45,204

    Re: Le Collectif Santé

    Quote Originally Posted by JEK View Post
    I recall many trip reports with well, trips to the hospital for a stitch or a broken bone. Probably more to a dentist for for a lost crown. I remember getting a perscription filled after a quick consult with a doc in Gustavia. And of course there is the legendary early care that Rosemond received before his airlift to hospital.
    Your experience as well as others is notable and personal but it doesn’t attract visitors.


    Andy

  28. #28
    JEK is offline
    Senior Insider Joined: Jan 2004 In the ether . . . Posts: 55,349

    Re: Le Collectif Santé

    Quote Originally Posted by andynap View Post
    Your experience as well as others is notable and personal but it doesn’t attract visitors.
    Oh, I agree, but:


    I don't think there will be a big turn away, but people of a certain age, say over seventy five, and/or those with other morbidities, may find alternatives to the little rock.
    The Marius 100th Birthday Party Memorial -- June 5, 2023

  29. #29
    cassidain is online now
    SBH Insider Joined: Jul 2007 Ailleurs Posts: 7,828

    Re: Le Collectif Santé

    Quote Originally Posted by JEK View Post
    I don't think there will be a big turn away, but people of a certain age, say over seventy five, and/or those with other morbidities, may find alternatives to the little rock.
    that’s possible.
    Fils du Sud - Roi des Fils Verrouillés

    If I can't wear my Havaianas, I ain't goin'...ÀMHA

  30. #30
    MTBH is offline
    SBH Member Joined: May 2021 Posts: 27

    Re: Le Collectif Santé

    Quote Originally Posted by JEK View Post
    I don't think there will be a big turn away, but people of a certain age, say over seventy five, and/or those with other morbidities, may find alternatives to the little rock.
    I think this is true. I am seeing St. Barts in a different light given certain responses to the pandemic. And then I see some hope with comments from Rosita and LibT. The thought of health care professionals ignoring the science and refusing to be vaccinated under the guise of civil liberties even though they are tasked with treating some of our most vulnerable population is unnerving and upsetting. Even the head of the American Civil Liberties Union (who defends free speech for some truly reprehensible groups) do not see vaccine mandates as a violation of civil liberties:

    "far from compromising civil liberties, vaccine mandates actually further civil liberties. They protect the most vulnerable among us, including people with disabilities and fragile immune systems, children too young to be vaccinated and communities of color hit hard by the disease."

    Simply put -- Civil liberties
    do not include the right to inflict harm on others. "Where a vaccine is not medically contraindicated, however, avoiding a deadly threat to the public health typically outweighs personal autonomy and individual freedom."

    No one is forcing people to get vaccinated but it might mean (as stated above) that it is time to find a new career.



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