Non-island discussion posts regarding COVID

[KevinS]

Not too many years ago we allowed political posts and discussions to flourish in the Everything Else Forum. The rhetoric became so vitriolic that it was impossible to keep it from spilling over into the main Forums, either by reference or direct quote.


The moderators decided to end that practice and demanded our users to cease and desist. Other platforms are readily available for those rants.


The COVID-19 pandemic has created another firestorm of opinions and statistics that polarize our society as much, if not more than, the situation we experienced years ago.


The island of Saint Barthelémy is the one thing that brought us all to the Forum and keeps us coming back. We love and respect the people, culture and form of this very special place.


Of course we are all concerned for the island’s citizens and their economic well being. We are also concerned about our ability to safely return to see our friends and special places so dear to our hearts.


To do that we need to understand the evolving protocols for entry and the state of the health of the population to make informed decisions on our return plans. We all know return involves other stops along the way - San Juan for some and St. Martin for most. Entry protocols for those intermediate destinations are just as relevant as those on St. Barth and need to be disclosed as they become available and discussed openly and thoroughly.


What isn’t needed and will not be tolerated is discussion of the conditions in the United States . Those conditions and the inevitable debate on theories of epidemiology add nothing to our understanding of the how we plan our return to support our island friends.


From now on there will be no warnings, just quick deletion/move of any posts that wander into these domestic US topics.

Your Moderators: Kevin, Dennis and John

[cassidain]

careful, I hear that st. barths will be banning people from the island that have no sense of humor.

btw, feds put j&j "vaccine" on pause.

[Bart -my real name-]

btw, feds put j&j "vaccine" on pause.

How's your research on the virus and vaccines going? When will we be able to read your report?

[cassidain]

How's your research on the virus and vaccines going? When will we be able to read your report?

btw, feds put j&j "vaccine" on pause

[Bart -my real name-]

btw, feds put j&j "vaccine" on pause.

How's your research on the virus and vaccines going? When will we be able to read your report?

[cassidain]

How's your research on the virus and vaccines going? When will we be able to read your report?

nice weather we’re having. especially since haze cleared this morning.

[TR561]

Fauci is never going to be able to let go of this, all while every prediction he makes, falls flat on its face. The positive thing here in the states are that most people are moving on with their lives and making their own choices.

[JEK]

btw, feds put j&j "vaccine" on pause.

Some context:

Joint CDC and FDA Statement on Johnson & Johnson COVID-19 Vaccine

The following statement is attributed to Dr. Anne Schuchat, Principal Deputy Director of the CDC and Dr. Peter Marks, director of the FDA’s Center for Biologics Evaluation and Research
Media Statement
For Immediate Release: Tuesday, April 13, 2021
Contact: Media Relations
(404) 639-3286


As of April 12, more than 6.8 million doses of the Johnson & Johnson (Janssen ) vaccine have been administered in the U.S. CDC and FDA are reviewing data involving six reported U.S. cases of a rare and severe type of blood clot in individuals after receiving the J&J vaccine. In these cases, a type of blood clot called cerebral venous sinus thrombosis (CVST) was seen in combination with low levels of blood platelets (thrombocytopenia). All six cases occurred among women between the ages of 18 and 48, and symptoms occurred 6 to 13 days after vaccination. Treatment of this specific type of blood clot is different from the treatment that might typically be administered. Usually, an anticoagulant drug called heparin is used to treat blood clots. In this setting, administration of heparin may be dangerous, and alternative treatments need to be given.
CDC will convene a meeting of the Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices (ACIP) on Wednesday to further review these cases and assess their potential significance. FDA will review that analysis as it also investigates these cases. Until that process is complete, we are recommending a pause in the use of this vaccine out of an abundance of caution. This is important, in part, to ensure that the health care provider community is aware of the potential for these adverse events and can plan for proper recognition and management due to the unique treatment required with this type of blood clot.
Right now, these adverse events appear to be extremely rare. COVID-19 vaccine safety is a top priority for the federal government, and we take all reports of health problems following COVID-19 vaccination very seriously. People who have received the J&J vaccine who develop severe headache, abdominal pain, leg pain, or shortness of breath within three weeks after vaccination should contact their health care provider. Health care providers are asked to report adverse events to the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System at https://vaers.hhs.gov/reportevent.htmlexternal icon.
CDC and FDA will provide additional information and answer questions later today at a media briefing. A recording of that media call will be available on the FDA’s YouTube channel.

[JEK]

And this:

>8000 US Covid deaths in females 18-49 y/o.

[Bart -my real name-]

Fauci is never going to be able to let go of this, all while every prediction he makes, falls flat on its face. The positive thing here in the states are that most people are moving on with their lives and making their own choices.

Compared to who?

The guy who said 15 deaths would be down to zero over a year ago?
The guy who said it's nearly completely contained over a year ago?

[didier]

btw, feds put j&j "vaccine" on pause.

yes I read that, scary news.

when some of the locals on the island read that someone on facebook puts up their card showing they were vaccinated, they put in a laughing emoji, most locals think the vaccines are still experimental ( of course most people don't die or have really serious side effects, but what if you are the person that does?) but the locals are okay if you get vaccinated, just don't pressure them to get vaccinated.

And as far as Fauci goes, he flip flops to please his audience at the time, remember in feb & march 2020, no masks required, it will do nothing to protect you or others against the virus.

then he changed later to how masks are important to fight the virus. I know in a few states that have lifted the mask requirement, the covid rates have declined. When Fauci was questioned about this , he said the declining rate of the virus is not because people are no longer wearing masks, its because they are outdoors more, playing football etc.

[stbartshopper]

A pause is very different than a recall or removal from the marketplace. We will see.

[Bart -my real name-]

And as far as Fauci goes, he flip flops to please his audience at the time, remember in feb & march 2020, no masks required, it will do nothing to protect you or others against the virus.

.

Please. I don't know what color the sky is in your world but it must not be the same sky the rest of us look at.

Show me examples of him "flip flopping all the time". If you truly don't know the story on his mask comment, I'll clue you in. He advised the general public not to go out and buy masks because there was shortage and medical personnel couldn't get them. He was simply trying to mitigate a crisis situation and look out for the greater good. I realize those are foreign concepts to many around here, but that's all he was doing.

And please produce evidence of Fauci say masks will do nothing to protect you or others against the virus. I'll wait.


Feel free to post your opinion, but can you spare us the straight up lies? And you wonder why Fauci is getting death threats and needs a personal security squad.

[GramChop]

Please. I don't know what color the sky is in your world but it must not be the same sky the rest of us look at.

Show me examples of him "flip flopping all the time". If you truly don't know the story on his mask comment, I'll clue you in. He advised the general public not to go out and buy masks because there was shortage and medical personnel couldn't get them. He was simply trying to mitigate a crisis situation and look out for the greater good. I realize those are foreign concepts to many around here, but that's all he was doing.

And please produce evidence of Fauci say masks will do nothing to protect you or others against the virus. I'll wait.


Feel free to post your opinion, but can you spare us the straight up lies? And you wonder why Fauci is getting death threats and needs a personal security squad.

Don't waste your fingerstrokes, Bart. Some just need to wallow in the vortex of drama to feel alive. You know what is truth ... live in that zone.

[Bart -my real name-]

Thanks Missy.........but I'm not smart enough to get out of my own way!!

[andynap]

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[didier]

Please. I don't know what color the sky is in your world but it must not be the same sky the rest of us look at.

Show me examples of him "flip flopping all the time". If you truly don't know the story on his mask comment, I'll clue you in. He advised the general public not to go out and buy masks because there was shortage and medical personnel couldn't get them. He was simply trying to mitigate a crisis situation and look out for the greater good. I realize those are foreign concepts to many around here, but that's all he was doing.

And please produce evidence of Fauci say masks will do nothing to protect you or others against the virus. I'll wait.


Feel free to post your opinion, but can you spare us the straight up lies? And you wonder why Fauci is getting death threats and needs a personal security squad.

Actually Dr. Fauci said this on march 8,2020 on a 60 minutes interview with no mention that the reason had anything to do with health workers needing the masks, he also said in the interview that wearing a mask might make you feel a little bit better and it might even block a droplet, but its not providing the perfect protection that people think it might. you can watch the interview on youtube.

the cdc did not request that the average person wear a mask until april 3,2020, the cdc at that time said that face coverings in public settings should be worn. Dr. Fauci changed his tune after the cdc posted this. It was only later he said that there was a shortage for health workers.

by the way Bart, I have no reason to lie, this interview is out on the world wide web.

[didier]

Don't waste your fingerstrokes, Bart. Some just need to wallow in the vortex of drama to feel alive. You know what is truth ... live in that zone.

you're the one hiding in your basement, how alive can that be?

[GramChop]

you're the one hiding in your basement, how alive can that be?

Again...be better; in general, Texas, specifically Austin, homes aren't built with basements.

[Bart -my real name-]

And please produce evidence of Fauci say masks will do nothing to protect you or others against the virus. I'll wait.

I'm still waiting. I'm also waiting for those countless examples of Fauci flip flopping that you cited.

And, you're being silly or willfully ignorant to quote anything that Trump's CDC said. Like the rest of the administration they were in the lies and propaganda business. And so are you.

But I'll be sure to rush right down to the petri dish of St. Barts and spend my money like you keep advising.

[andynap]

I guess no one read my fact checker

[didier]

[QUOTE=GramChop;1040579]Again...be better; in general, Texas, specifically Austin, homes aren't built with basements.

[/QUOTe

did you really think I meant an actual basement?

[didier]

I'm still waiting. I'm also waiting for those countless examples of Fauci flip flopping that you cited.

And, you're being silly or willfully ignorant to quote anything that Trump's CDC said. Like the rest of the administration they were in the lies and propaganda business. And so are you.

But I'll be sure to rush right down to the petri dish of St. Barts and spend my money like you keep advising.

You really should not be political Bart. We don't wish anyone to come to st. barths that does not want to be here. so go elsewhere, plenty of beautiful places out there.

[didier]

I guess no one read my fact checker

I read it Andy, thanks

[GramChop]

[QUOTE=didier;1040582]

Again...be better; in general, Texas, specifically Austin, homes aren't built with basements.

[/QUOTe

did you really think I meant an actual basement?

Based on the bold text below, yes.

Actually Dr. Fauci said this on march 8,2020 on a 60 minutes interview with no mention that the reason had anything to do with health workers needing the masks, he also said in the interview that wearing a mask might make you feel a little bit better and it might even block a droplet, but its not providing the perfect protection that people think it might. you can watch the interview on youtube.

the cdc did not request that the average person wear a mask until april 3,2020, the cdc at that time said that face coverings in public settings should be worn. Dr. Fauci changed his tune after the cdc posted this. It was only later he said that there was a shortage for health workers.

by the way Bart, I have no reason to lie, this interview is out on the world wide web.

I'm leaving this exchange; my basement needs dusting.

[JEK]

This thread, once removed, is doing nothing to advance critical thinking and subsequent rational conversation.

Off to the dustbin!

[DAF]

It is true that a small number have been infected post-vaccine. But that is not what really matters.
No vaccine will be 100% effective at preventing infection but the current vaccines are extremely close to 100% effective at preventing death or even serious illness.
They are also highly effective at reducing transmission.
COVID is not likely to go away in our lifetime.
If we are going to wait to reopen the world until there is no chance of infection then the world has pretty much already ended as we knew it.
In an average year in the USA 40-50,000 die of the flu. We still try to live a normal life.
Among those who are vaccinated the annual death toll from COVID is going to be less than that.
When do we recognize that being vaccinated means being at acceptable risk. Those who don't get the vaccine will eventually get infected. Their choice. If you have been vaccinated this pandemic is essential over for you.
But focusing on extremely rare events like post-vaccine infection or transmission only hurts efforts to get people immunized and resume normal life

[cassidain]

They are also highly effective at reducing transmission.

that may or may not be, but if so, why are some calling for those who have been injected to continue to wear their masks and to avoid gatherings?

[DAF]

that may or may not be, but if so, why are some calling for those who have been injected to continue to wear their masks and to avoid gatherings?

Actually the current recommendation is that if you are with other vaccinated people masks are not needed.

I think you run into a problem when you have 1/3 of the people running around without masks because they are immune but then expect the rest to comply with wearing masks. Vaccined are not yet available on demand for everyone who wants it.
Once we are well into that point then I think it becomes a reasonable debate as to whether masks should be required to protect those who refuse vaccinations.

But my larger point is simply that we need to start to recognize that there is now a sizable population of people who pose a very small risk and perhaps less aggressive measures make sense for that group.

I totally agree we need to protect those still vulnerable but wonder if angst about liberalized rules for those who don't pose a high risk also makes sense.
The evidence showing up in the medical literature is strongly indicating that vaccinated people not only have very low disease risk. They also are very unlikely to transmit the virus.

Too much of government policy us lagging behind the science.

[cassidain]

Actually the current recommendation is that if you are with other vaccinated people masks are not needed.

one hears many, and often confused and conflicting, different things from various public officials. but if vaccination is so efficacious at prevention of transmission and prevention of contracting the C virus, why does it matter if others around an injected individual have received injections themselves or not?