JEK
Moderator
Reged: 01/20/04
Posts: 10983
Loc: Northern Virginia
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From time to time people ask exactly where is villa located by street number. Oldies know that there isn't such a thing, so I've come up with a project using Google Earth to map as many of them as possible. I started in St. Jean in this screen capture from Google Earth. Anyone else want to play?
You can email me your coordinates and I'll add them to a Google community.
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Carnaval 2009: Mardi 24 Février 2009!!!!
JEK
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frypan
Reged: 03/14/05
Posts: 111
Loc: Toledo, OH
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Sounds like a great project for the villa agencies. They should be able to upload all their coordinates to GEarth and put a link next to each villa to show its location. Eight days and counting down!
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JEK
Moderator
Reged: 01/20/04
Posts: 10983
Loc: Northern Virginia
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Quote:
Sounds like a great project for the villa agencies. They should be able to upload all their coordinates to GEarth and put a link next to each villa to show its location. Eight days and counting down!
They won't do it as they often each represent the same property under two different codes/names. Back to youse guys . . . .
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Carnaval 2009: Mardi 24 Février 2009!!!!
JEK
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frypan
Reged: 03/14/05
Posts: 111
Loc: Toledo, OH
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The codes might change, but the coordinates would remain the same. We would have the same issue here. One might use Wimco codes and another might use St. Barth Property codes.
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KevinS
Reged: 07/23/03
Posts: 3460
Loc: Boston
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There is also a question of privacy. Some may not want to stay in a villa whose location has been outed, which would prevent a villa agency from participating.
Everyone from this board whom I have met in person have been fine folks. However, a few of you that I haven't yet met just may be the wacko axe murderers that many of our wives (and probably husbands) think.
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JEK
Moderator
Reged: 01/20/04
Posts: 10983
Loc: Northern Virginia
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Quote:
There is also a question of privacy. Some may not want to stay in a villa whose location has been outed, which would prevent a villa agency from participating.
Everyone from this board whom I have met in person have been fine folks. However, a few of you that I haven't yet met just may be the wacko axe murderers that many of our wives (and probably husbands) think.
Mrs. JoshA and Mrs. JEK were talking about the wacko factor last night as Josh, Eddie and I were bonding . . .
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Carnaval 2009: Mardi 24 Février 2009!!!!
JEK
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Andynap
Reged: 10/24/02
Posts: 12360
Loc: Philadelphia
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Quote:
There is also a question of privacy. Some may not want to stay in a villa whose location has been outed, which would prevent a villa agency from participating.
Everyone from this board whom I have met in person have been fine folks. However, a few of you that I haven't yet met just may be the wacko axe murderers that many of our wives (and probably husbands) think.
Actually my wife used to think that until she starting meeting everyone. She thinks this is a super crowd. One caveat- she never met MikeR. LOL.
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Andy -
St. Barts- where no day is ever the same and one day is not enough
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JEK
Moderator
Reged: 01/20/04
Posts: 10983
Loc: Northern Virginia
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Quote:
Actually my wife used to think that until she starting meeting everyone. She thinks this is a super crowd. One caveat- she never met MikeR. LOL.
My wife was so happy to discover that Mrs. Josh NEVER reads (obsessively) THAT forum.
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Carnaval 2009: Mardi 24 Février 2009!!!!
JEK
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JoshA
Reged: 08/28/05
Posts: 2272
Loc: Virginia
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This is true. My wife is the sensible one in the family and keeps us real. Every man and woman should have a guide like her.
But, back to the maps: Aren't the addresses listed? Do you need GPS coordinates?
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loriinstbarths
Reged: 01/09/04
Posts: 111
Loc: NY, NY
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a couple months back, I tried to get St. Barth on Google Earth, but I wasn't able to get the detail. This is awesome.
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Cheers
Darren (and Lori)
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Island Visitor
Reged: 12/19/02
Posts: 10396
Loc: Retraité
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This is all big fun. But as soon as the resolution of these images gets so high and done in realtime that they rename it Googleogle Earth, I fear that some "members" of this site will no longer sun outdoors for fear of becoming cyberstars.
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NYCFred
Reged: 01/06/04
Posts: 6323
Loc: NYC
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<<<But as soon as the resolution of these images gets so high and done in realtime >>>>
Hey, the google earth shots of Fire Island are at least 6 years old...Look on the bright side, IV....how'd you like to be immortalized on Google Earth with your (former) 22 year old body?
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I go for the Q-tips.
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Island Visitor
Reged: 12/19/02
Posts: 10396
Loc: Retraité
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I wasn't 22 five years ago. Nor have I ever visitted Fire Island.
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islander
Reged: 05/13/05
Posts: 198
Loc: St.Barths & St.Tropez
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So it is true, Big Brother is watching...
As long as you don't display the name of the owner on the roof of each house, it's a great idea! (especially interesting for the IRS when you know that half of the rental villas belong to North Americans)
The question is about privacy: not so sure that people want the whole world to know where they're staying...
It's certainly usefull to plan a trip!
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Only happy at 41,000 feet
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AandM
Reged: 01/31/05
Posts: 70
Loc: Channel Isles (near France)
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We agree - a great idea and very helpfull for choosing your next villa !!
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Andynap
Reged: 10/24/02
Posts: 12360
Loc: Philadelphia
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Quote:
We agree - a great idea and very helpfull for choosing your next villa !!
Many objections from villa owners about privacy, squelched this project.
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Andy -
St. Barts- where no day is ever the same and one day is not enough
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Skeeter
Reged: 12/20/06
Posts: 1198
Loc: Chicago, IL
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Quote:
Quote:
We agree - a great idea and very helpfull for choosing your next villa !!
Many objections from villa owners about privacy, squelched this project.
Can somebody explain the privacy argument to me?
These people are marketing villas. How can you market property and not be upfront on where exactly that property is?
Moreover, this whole idea of "Hey, looks like Mike is going to be there Thursday due to his posts. Let's not rob it now. Let's rob it THEN" seems ridiculous.
As somebody looking to rent a villa, I might be inclined to rule out any property where the owner refuses to participate in this. Won't tell me exactly where the property is that I am spending $5,000 a week for? Fine, I will find another owner who is proud of the location of the property.
The entire discussion here makes me more inclined to forget the idea of renting a villa and instead just to stay at IDF or Guanahani. With those places, I may pay a few dollars more, but I know what I am getting.
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Will Travel For Food (But not to Chicago's suburbs -- we do have limits)
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Andynap
Reged: 10/24/02
Posts: 12360
Loc: Philadelphia
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
We agree - a great idea and very helpfull for choosing your next villa !!
Many objections from villa owners about privacy, squelched this project.
Can somebody explain the privacy argument to me?
These people are marketing villas. How can you market property and not be upfront on where exactly that property is?
Moreover, this whole idea of "Hey, looks like Mike is going to be there Thursday due to his posts. Let's not rob it now. Let's rob it THEN" seems ridiculous.
As somebody looking to rent a villa, I might be inclined to rule out any property where the owner refuses to participate in this. Won't tell me exactly where the property is that I am spending $5,000 a week for? Fine, I will find another owner who is proud of the location of the property.
The entire discussion here makes me more inclined to forget the idea of renting a villa and instead just to stay at IDF or Guanahani. With those places, I may pay a few dollars more, but I know what I am getting.
It wasn't the normal villa owners- it was the very expensive villa owners who didn't want the press photogs bothering the "stars" if they found out what villa they were staying at. It only took a few to stop the project.
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Andy -
St. Barts- where no day is ever the same and one day is not enough
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marybeth
Reged: 05/22/04
Posts: 275
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We are currently staying at our third villa. Each time we have come to SBH we have know pretty much were the villa is located. The agencies are very forthcoming about this (St Barth Properties and French Caribbean). Also on the SBP website, many villas have a map that show exactly were it is and detail the range of view.
Since I understand you have stayed at IDF it may be better since as you say, you know exactly what you are getting. I walked past it yesterday along Flammands and I know it is nice, but those 100s of beach lounges in front were a turn off. From where I am sitting there are only 4 lounges around my private pool, with a view from SXM to GCd (including the Gunahani)!! We prefer the privacy.
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Skeeter
Reged: 12/20/06
Posts: 1198
Loc: Chicago, IL
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Quote:
We are currently staying at our third villa. Each time we have come to SBH we have know pretty much were the villa is located. The agencies are very forthcoming about this (St Barth Properties and French Caribbean). Also on the SBP website, many villas have a map that show exactly were it is and detail the range of view.
Since I understand you have stayed at IDF it may be better since as you say, you know exactly what you are getting. I walked past it yesterday along Flammands and I know it is nice, but those 100s of beach lounges in front were a turn off. From where I am sitting there are only 4 lounges around my private pool, with a view from SXM to GCd (including the Gunahani)!! We prefer the privacy.
Hundreds at IDF?
There were about 20 when we were there. About half were actually occupied. It may have expanded since I was last there.
How about this compromise: If the place rents for over $20,000 a week, let's not put it on the list. Otherwise, it shouldn't matter.
As I said, if an owner is concerned that people will find out where the villa is, I think the only reasonable conclusion is that the location is pretty bad.
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Will Travel For Food (But not to Chicago's suburbs -- we do have limits)
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marybeth
Reged: 05/22/04
Posts: 275
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Quote:
Hundreds at IDF?
Ok, more like 40...this time I am not exagerating...And it was pretty crowded, as it is high season.
As I said, if an owner is concerned that people will find out where the villa is, I think the only reasonable conclusion is that the location is pretty bad.
The villas are in St. Barth...where is there a bad location?!?! LOL
Really, if you are concerned about location, just ask the agency. Its really not a big deal. If you are familiar with the island (its only 8 sq mi) its easy to figure out where things are.
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Skeeter
Reged: 12/20/06
Posts: 1198
Loc: Chicago, IL
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Quote:
Quote:
Hundreds at IDF?
Ok, more like 40...this time I am not exagerating...And it was pretty crowded, as it is high season.
As I said, if an owner is concerned that people will find out where the villa is, I think the only reasonable conclusion is that the location is pretty bad.
The villas are in St. Barth...where is there a bad location?!?! LOL
Really, if you are concerned about location, just ask the agency. Its really not a big deal. If you are familiar with the island (its only 8 sq mi) its easy to figure out where things are.
Apparently the villa owners think that there are differences in location, such that they want to prevent people from making comparisons.
They are raising the secrecy issue. I'm not. I am just concerned because they apparently want to conceal their locations.
If it is as open and obvious to everyone as you claim, then the owners should be pleased to mark their locations.
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Will Travel For Food (But not to Chicago's suburbs -- we do have limits)
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Island Visitor
Reged: 12/19/02
Posts: 10396
Loc: Retraité
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The privacy issue refers to the fact that there are some Heavy Hitters who really dont want the Snapperazzi to know for sure where their place is as well as the fact that there are some owners who would prefer that "certain organizations" didn't know they had places there.
While it seems innocuous enough to just tag everything with a SIB code, eventually our map would jump the shark (Miker!) and start having tags like "Tim's house" or "Hollywood Star X's House".
One of the reasons people go to St Barth is to avoid too much public focus. This seems like a trifling matter but if an owner wants privacy, I respect that wish.
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marybeth
Reged: 05/22/04
Posts: 275
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And in that same vein, I certainly would not appreciate a website with a map of my neighborhood will my house clearly labeled!
When villa owners or managers list with agencies, they rely on them to make sure their villa is accurately described. It is also to the agencies advantage to know all the facts about the villa to ensure clients satisfaction. Agencies will show you villas in person on the island if they are unoccupied. But I would not appreciate someone driving by to scope my place out now, while I am here!
People making legitimate inquiries regarding villas, including their locations, will have their questions answered. I respect the right on the property owners to limit specific info to those who are likely clients. A conspiracy theory? Doubtful.
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JEK
Moderator
Reged: 01/20/04
Posts: 10983
Loc: Northern Virginia
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The strange this is that such a map exists in most municipalities in the form of a tax assessment data base. Put in the address of a house, get the owner's name and sales price, click another link for the satellite view. The only way to avoid is to ask for a redaction, which most people don't do. No such thing on SBH, at least that I've been able to find.
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Carnaval 2009: Mardi 24 Février 2009!!!!
JEK
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KevinS
Reged: 07/23/03
Posts: 3460
Loc: Boston
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Quote:
No such thing on SBH, at least that I've been able to find.
That's because there are no street addresses. Give it time...
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JEK
Moderator
Reged: 01/20/04
Posts: 10983
Loc: Northern Virginia
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I think all the construction projects have GPS coordinates, so that probably how the database is maintained.
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Carnaval 2009: Mardi 24 Février 2009!!!!
JEK
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Island Visitor
Reged: 12/19/02
Posts: 10396
Loc: Retraité
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And, to paraphrase KevinS' wonderful phrase (Villa Promiscuous), I am a Villa Slut, sleeping around the island and rarely laying my head twice in the same place.
While I, like anyone, would love to be able to Googlemap my next villa and know EXACTLY where it is, I must admit that The Surprise Factor of stepping into a new villa is kind of nice. Furthermore, too much info can be misleading. Case in point: We booked DOR for last November. Some folks were put off by the location (across the street from Le Ti) but we bit the bullet (merci to nnoska and others for the recommendation) and stayed there.
The Bomb.
And the location was PERFECT. Indeed, we LOVE that villa.
Our Gut Feeling and some pretty strong recommendations overcame "objective data". Some people recommended passing DOR by as a rental because of the location. That would have been a big mistake.
So, while I would also love the Villa Map Project, I have to admit that there is still a little bit of fun left in The Mystery - "Oh, I didn't know that THIS was the villa from the pix. Way cool".
That's how a Villa Slut sees it.
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Mike R
Reged: 05/26/03
Posts: 15952
Loc: Stinson Lake - New Hampshire
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I am not a Villa person as I am not nearly worthy of such extravagances.....but indulge this low rent district pauper for one minute..
what about the people who work their butts off all year and get limited vacation time and their "surprise" when they walk into their villa is nearby construction noise, lack of privacy etc etc......so now its a case of dropping your bags and looking around....knowing you just got a raw deal and the best thing you can say is " oh well, maybe next year we will get what we want and need", while enduring the vacation rather then embellishing it..
there is A LOT to be said for finding a place, via the promiscuous route perhaps, which is exactly what you want, need, and like and sticking with it and knowing EXACTLY how your experience is going to be, at least in terms of your lodging, and knowing for sure beforehand you are going to love it, and not having that apprehension traveling with you.
Your Truly
Mr Monogamous
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Andynap
Reged: 10/24/02
Posts: 12360
Loc: Philadelphia
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BTW- the Google Earth view that everyone is fond of is from 1999.
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Andy -
St. Barts- where no day is ever the same and one day is not enough
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Island Visitor
Reged: 12/19/02
Posts: 10396
Loc: Retraité
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Quote:
BTW- the Google Earth view that everyone is fond of is from 1999.
No wonder you look so young "hanging out" on that pooldeck.
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Island Visitor
Reged: 12/19/02
Posts: 10396
Loc: Retraité
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Quote:
there is A LOT to be said for finding a place, via the promiscuous route perhaps, which is exactly what you want, need, and like and sticking with it and knowing EXACTLY how your experience is going to be, at least in terms of your lodging, and knowing for sure beforehand you are going to love it, and not having that apprehension traveling with you.
Your Truly
Mr Monogamous
Well, I dont go on Blind Dates. Get a buddy to fix you up. I use Ellie at Wimco. She hasn't led me wrong yet - a perfect matchmaker so far. As such, I get the benefit of Someone Who Knows as well as the enjoyment of The Mystery.
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Island Visitor
Reged: 12/19/02
Posts: 10396
Loc: Retraité
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(For the record: If I ever do settle down, it will be with BAL if she'll still have me - her dance card is filling fast).
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Petri
Reged: 01/19/04
Posts: 1350
Loc: Helsinki, Finland
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How about just making simple instructions for villa owners to make their own .kml file for their own villa that can be made available on their own web page and the villa rental agencies web pages?
I checked the location for our last villa using the pictures from the villa's web page, knowledge of the island (view from the villa) and Google Earth.
I think the whole thing is more about security through obscurity, I'm pretty certain every paparazzi or anyone else looking for a specific villa has no trouble getting the information from somewhere.
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Island Visitor
Reged: 12/19/02
Posts: 10396
Loc: Retraité
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Re: Villa Map Project
[Re: Petri]
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