St. Barts Discussion >> St. Barths Discussion

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timModerator
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Reged: 06/18/03
Posts: 5995
Loc: Vélo, Virginia, Vitet
The Sand and Bay of St. Jean
      #139683 - 08/25/08 09:21 AM

Mes amis,

I just received this message from Dr. Brosnan. I hope Erik or someone on the island can attend and tell us all about it.

THE SAND AND BAY OF ST JEAN, ST BARTHS FWI

On Tuesday Night, The Collectivite of St Barthelemy will convene a presentation on the environment of St Jean Bay. What is the environmental story of St Jean Bay- a place that has deep cultural significance for the local community and is now vital to tourism? Why is the sand disappearing? What can we do to sustain this bay? What about re-nourishing the beach? What does the future hold? These are the questions that will be explored by a panel of three scientists currently on St Barths. The public is cordially invited to hear the presentation, ask questions and talk with the scientists. This is an opportunity to discover more about the beaches and nearshore waters of the island that so many cherish.

Time 6 p.m.
Place: Hotel de la Collectivite, Gustavia St Barthelemy


About the Scientists.
Dr Deborah BROSNAN Marine scientist and President of Sustainable Ecosystems Institute. Dr Brosnan works on coral reef and marine ecosystems throughout the world. Her work focuses on the impacts of humans, natural disasters, and changes in marine systems. This work has taken her to SE Asia after the tsunami and the Gulf Coast USA after Hurricane Katrina. As founder and President of SEI she heads an organization of over 1,000 eminent and nomnated scientists. The Institute convenes scientific teams to help solve issues of national importance. Dr Brosnan serves on several prestigious university and scientific boards. She has given testimony before the US Senate and House Committees on the role of science. She holds affiliate professorships and fellowships at several universities including Stanford University and NW School of Law. She also works in the public arena having been featured on Oprah Winfrey Show, Public Television and radio. She has worked on the marine environment of St Barths for fifteen years. She lives in the USA and in St Barths FWI.


Mr. Ralph CLARK M.S. Mr. Clark is a civil engineer and a coastal and oceanographic engineer. For over 20 years he has held responsibility for the maintaining and managing the beaches for the State of Florida. In 1988, he was the first to inventory and identify the critical erosion problems of the beaches, and he continues his work to the present day. Mr. Clark has been responsible for analyzing and making recommendations to identify beach resources in a critical state of erosion and to identify measures to mitigate the erosion conditions. As an engineer he is deeply rooted in the practical and technical aspects of beach restoration and maintenance. He has worked throughout the Caribbean and worldwide (from Africa to South America) where he is in much demand for his skills in identifying and solving beach erosion and beach restoration. He is the author of many influential works on beach inventory and beach mitigation.

Dr Joan OLTMAN-SHAY Physical Oceanographer and President and Senior Scientist of North West Associates. Dr Shay is a specialist in beach dynamics. Since graduating from Scripps Institution of Oceanography, she has spent most of her career studying and monitoring waves and currents in the nearshore environment (from the beach to 10m depth). Her work uses remote video data to understand the key processes especially the interplay of water movement and beach transport. Early in her career she designed the USACE 8m-depth wave-directional array and analysis software for the Field Research Facility and which remains operational today. As President of NWA she oversees a company of 80 scientists working on a range of engineering and environmental issues. She has published over sixty refereed articles, technical reports, and conference papers. Dr. Oltman-Shay is an affiliate professor at U. Washington, has been a member of the National Academies' Ocean Studies Board and the US Army Corps of Engineers Coastal Engineering Research Board, and several blue-ribbon National Research Council committees.

--
There is no dilemma compared with that of the deep-sea diver who hears the message from the ship above, "Come up at once. We are sinking."
-Robert Cooper

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andynap



Reged: 10/24/02
Posts: 12135
Loc: Philadelphia
Re: The Sand and Bay of St. Jean new [Re: tim]
      #139684 - 08/25/08 09:30 AM

Shifting sand does seem to be a problem but mostly west of the ER. I wonder why it doesn't affect the area past Nikki as much.

--------------------
Andy -
St. Barts- where no day is ever the same and one day is not enough












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MartinS



Reged: 05/25/03
Posts: 771
Loc: Anna Maria Island, Florida.
Re: The Sand and Bay of St. Jean new [Re: andynap]
      #139687 - 08/25/08 11:34 AM

Having worked (and now live) on a barrier island for 27 + years I can tell you that the sand comes and goes. Our town spends 10's of millions of dollars to replace the sand to only have it disappear in record time. The passing storm (FAY) claimed 50 to 100 feet of beach in some places here. They have tried or talked about every conceivable option here. They just keep throwing money at it. A few years ago we renourished at a price of over $10,000,000. Fay took about $5,000,000 of it with her. They have researched makepeace groins, permeable bags, rocks, etc….

Bottom line, you can’t stop Mother Nature. I love fishing St. Jean early in the morning. I hope at the very least it is renourished so we can walk from one end to the other.

--------------------
You can rest when you're dead !!!

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Mike R



Reged: 05/26/03
Posts: 15730
Loc: Stinson Lake - New Hampshire
Re: The Sand and Bay of St. Jean new [Re: MartinS]
      #139691 - 08/25/08 12:59 PM

Quote:

Having worked (and now live) on a barrier island for 27 + years I can tell you that the sand comes and goes. Our town spends 10's of millions of dollars to replace the sand to only have it disappear in record time. The passing storm (FAY) claimed 50 to 100 feet of beach in some places here. They have tried or talked about every conceivable option here. They just keep throwing money at it. A few years ago we renourished at a price of over $10,000,000. Fay took about $5,000,000 of it with her. They have researched makepeace groins, permeable bags, rocks, etc….

Bottom line, you can’t stop Mother Nature. I love fishing St. Jean early in the morning. I hope at the very least it is renourished so we can walk from one end to the other.





ditto..its stupid people doing stupid things..over and over again.....and its with YOUR dime

--------------------
karma is a beautiful thing at times


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MartinS



Reged: 05/25/03
Posts: 771
Loc: Anna Maria Island, Florida.
Re: The Sand and Bay of St. Jean new [Re: Mike R]
      #139697 - 08/25/08 01:35 PM

And they have spent darn near just as much money talking about what to do about it .....

--------------------
You can rest when you're dead !!!

www.silentcaptain.com


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fins85258



Reged: 05/02/05
Posts: 1092
Loc: Scottsdale, Az
Re: The Sand and Bay of St. Jean new [Re: MartinS]
      #139707 - 08/25/08 03:38 PM

Take a look at this,

Go to Google earth and zero in on St Jean bay and take a little while to stare at it. take not of where you see waves and where you don,t. Then take note of the rock formations on the floor of the bay and where the sand is down there below the surface. Incoming water has to have a way of going back out. Sometimes it's in the form of a rip tide and sometimes it'd in the form of an undertow. These elments don't seem to be to harssh under normal circumstances but the action of escaping water and storms surge erodes beaches. Now if you pull back out in the photo to see the whole island you will realize that it was quite a bit larger a few (?) Million years ago??

It's tough to beat Mother Nature at her own game


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NYCFred



Reged: 01/06/04
Posts: 6119
Loc: NYC
Re: The Sand and Bay of St. Jean new [Re: Mike R]
      #139720 - 08/25/08 04:36 PM

My 1/2 of a town at the beach just passed a beach renourishment plan that's gonna run me about 1500 bucks a year for the next 5 years....
They build the dunes 60ft tall, 100ft base, in back of a beach at least 100 ft wide. If it hits the fan in the next 5 years, we get $$ from FEMA to rebuild to the 60x100x100 size.
Prob 3MM from Seaview alone....My point was that, for a lot less than 3MM, I could hire a team of ex navy seals to dynamite the groins in the Hamptons that have been blocking the littoral flow of sand to Fire Island for the last 40 years or so...

In any event, a beach house w/o a beach ain't worth a lot, literally and figuratively. I pay association dues every year for security, lifeguards, upkeep, etc etc. told my wife that we'll probably be paying the 'sand tax' now for as long as we own the place.

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I go for the Q-tips.


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Skeeter



Reged: 12/20/06
Posts: 1098
Loc: Chicago, IL
Re: The Sand and Bay of St. Jean new [Re: NYCFred]
      #139733 - 08/25/08 05:55 PM

Stupid question:
Realizing that tides/forces are not quite the same in the Great Lakes --

In Chicago, they built breakwaters to protect the harbor and beach. Seems to work pretty well. Is there some reason this can't be done on SB?

--------------------
Will Travel For Food (But not to Chicago's suburbs -- we do have limits)


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timModerator
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Reged: 06/18/03
Posts: 5995
Loc: Vélo, Virginia, Vitet
Re: The Sand and Bay of St. Jean new [Re: tim]
      #139741 - 08/25/08 08:01 PM

I admire Dr. Brosnan's efforts at educating the people of St. Barth concerning the natural processes of beach erosion and accretion and wish her and the other conference participants great success in this endeavor. Perhaps the most significant challenge is in taking the next step beyond education to protect the beaches, regulation of construction landward of the beach, i.e., hardened structures to protect zillion dollar beachfront homes, restaurants, and hotels. If there's any existing commitment from local leadership to make such difficult decisions, I have yet to see any signs of it. I hope it's simply hidden beneath the surface and awaiting the proper time to soon emerge where it can accomplish something positive.

P.S. There's a rumor going around the island about the possibility of a large hotel's being developed behind Saline Beach. If the rumor has any truth to it, that could be the point where the smelly brown stuff hits the rapidly twirling blades on this and similar issues.

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andynap



Reged: 10/24/02
Posts: 12135
Loc: Philadelphia
Re: The Sand and Bay of St. Jean new [Re: tim]
      #139743 - 08/25/08 08:20 PM

QUOTE:" There's a rumor going around the island about the possibility of a large hotel's being developed behind Saline Beach. "

And I wonder what took so long? There certainly is enough vacant ground. Could there be a better place to put a hotel?

--------------------
Andy -
St. Barts- where no day is ever the same and one day is not enough












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fins85258



Reged: 05/02/05
Posts: 1092
Loc: Scottsdale, Az
Re: The Sand and Bay of St. Jean new [Re: andynap]
      #139746 - 08/25/08 08:26 PM

Quote:

QUOTE:" There's a rumor going around the island about the possibility of a large hotel's being developed behind Saline Beach. "

And I wonder what took so long? There certainly is enough vacant ground. Could there be a better place to put a hotel?




Ya, on St. Maarten


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MartinS



Reged: 05/25/03
Posts: 771
Loc: Anna Maria Island, Florida.
Re: The Sand and Bay of St. Jean new [Re: fins85258]
      #139774 - 08/26/08 09:14 AM

If the hotel were right up close to the beach it would kill the attraction. The hotel would surely not want us common folks on their beach, especially sans bathing attire.

On the other hand, if the rate was good it would be a great place to stay….. with the salt pond smell in background.

--------------------
You can rest when you're dead !!!

www.silentcaptain.com


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